Starting Tues, 3/23/10 - Get To Know Jeff Mingay

[George Pazin]

Brief confession: Jeff is one of my (many) golfclubatlas hero's. He has been on this site longer than I can remember (pretty sure he pre-dates my involvement, which was 2000) and his range of contributions, from historical research to actual construction, rival anyone on the site's. There are folks on this site who love golf, and then there are folks who are actually doing something with their passion; Jeff is most definitely the latter.

Jeff has written two pieces that appear on the In My Opinion section of golfclubatlas:

The Evolution of a Classical Golf Course: Essex G&CC
by Jeff Mingay

‘Sair Fecht’: the 16th hole at Highlands Links
by Jeff Mingay

He also maintains a website - http://www.mingaygolf.com/ (though it doesn't seem to be loading properly right now, for me anyway) and has worked extensively with Rod Whitman, an architect who needs no introduction on this site, even if he might need a few more mentions in the golf media at large!

Jeff is a golfclubatlas renaissance man - thinker, doer, all around good guy. Please welcome him with lots of interesting questions.

-----

On deck: ?? Gotta check the messages

5 most recent:

Joe Bausch

Gary Slatter

Joel Zuckerman

Patrick Hodgdon

Bryan Izatt

Full list:

GTK participants

[Mike Nuzzo]

Jeff
Howdy

Can you get yours and Rod's business expenses any lower?
How low are they? 

Talk about working with Ben and Ran.
How are they like a typical developer?
How are they unlike?

When are we going to have more beers together?
Is your biggest regret not visiting Texas?

Cheers

[Will MacEwen]

Jeff,

What is the least-modified Macan design?

[Jeff_Mingay]

Wow, George. Thanks for the flattering introduction. Much appreciated.

I can't remember when Golf Club Atlas launched (?); but, it wasn't long after when I started participating. In fact, I posted the very first "In My Opinion" piece (in 1999, I think) on the design history and evolution of Donald Ross' Essex Golf & Country Club course, where I grew up playing. I was writing the club's history at the time. The original piece I posted caused some controversy between the club and a contemporary architect who had done some work at Essex. So, it was replaced shortly thereafter by a chapter from my club history book on the same subject. (I don't think I have the original piece, any more.)

The piece you've linked to on the 16th hole at Cape Breton Highlands Links was written as a supplement to Ran's review of the course after he, Ben and I visited together... must be at least 7-8 years ago now. (Time flies.)

I don't know what's up with my web site. We're in the process of updating and adding to it; throughout this process I've heard it's not working properly. Thanks for the heads-up. Should be fixed - and enhanced with more writing, photos, etc. - shortly.   

[Jeff_Mingay]

Mike,

What's a business?!!! I've not heard that word during my mentorship with Whitman 

Working with Ben and Ran... hmmm. I've know these guys a long time before Cabot Links was even thought about. In fact, it was Ben and I who flew to Nova Scotia together in 2005 or thereabouts (man... I'm not good with timelines!) to simply see firsthand if this property we'd been hearing about at Inverness really had the type of potential being trumpted. Now, here we are.

There's also a great story about Ben abandoning me in a winter downpour in Baddeck during that trip... but, I won't bore you!

Not sure if Ben and Ran are like "typical developers". But I think not. In my experience, all developers are unique in their own ways. As you might imagine though, it's always great (and fun) to build a golf course for/with guys, like Ben and Ran, who really "get it". Needless to say, they're serious students of golf architecture; and, they've been around. So they know how the world's best courses are presented, and play. Plus, again, they're friends. Working with real friends is a huge bonus.

There'll be plenty of beer to drink at Inverness this summer! Come on up for a visit. I'm sure we'll even find some work for you! Your pay will be nothing more than good ol' Alexander Keith's Pale Ale... Nova Scotia's beer!

One of my biggest regrets is not having visited Wolf Point yet. Yes. No joke. How good does this course look in photos?

[Jeff_Mingay]

Interesting question, Will.

As you know, so much of Macan's original work has been erased.

Whereas at least a couple greens have been rebuilt at Royal Colwood, I think it's a good candidate for the "best preserved" Macan course today. Ironically, Colwood is his first design too.

It's been awhile since I've visited Fircrest (Tacoma), but I remember thinking it hadn't been architecturally modified too badly.

I wouldn't put Richmond (near Vancouver) in the same category as Colwood and Fircrest, but I believe 17 of 18 Macan-designed greens there are intact. And, these things are something to see... they're smaller scale versions of the greens at Pinehurst No. 2! If I recall correctly, Macan was given something like $50,000 to build the entire Richmond course during the late 1950s. He basically built 18 wild greens.

Simultaneously he was working down the road at Shaughnessy, where it's been reported the course construction budget was comparatively unlimited. Although the original routing is basically intact, today's Shaughnessy isn't even remotely close to the course Macan designed.   

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jeff and I spent a few cold, snowy days touring Detroit area golf courses.

Jeff, I will be flying back through DET on April 1 if you want to tour some more!

[Jeff_Mingay]

Jeff,

Is this an April Fool's Day joke? 

I do have a trip to make the week of March 29, but I may be around Windsor on April 1. We should connect by phone soon to discuss.

Which courses have we seen together... Oakland Hills-South and Franklin Hills, I recall. Is that it?

[George Pazin]

Jeff, I forgot to ask my standard questions:

What brought you to golf?

Golf course architecture?

This website?

[Jeff_Mingay]

George,

What brought me to golf?

"Golf" is a word I've heard since the day I was born. My dad is a life-long golfer who was a member at Essex Golf and Country Club (D. Ross, 1929) since before I was born. I was very lucky to hang out at Essex as a kid, learning the game from my dad and the course.

Golf course architecture?

I've always been overly inquisitive. So, when I was a teenager I started to delve into my dad's extensive book collection. I'm more amazed now than I was then that my dad had some pretty cool books pertaining to golf course architecture on his shelves: Scotland's Gift - Golf (Macdonald), Golf Architecture (Mackenzie), The Golf Courses of the British Isles (Darwin), and so on. I read these books incessantly as a teenage kid; and, I've since "stolen" them all from my dad's collection!

Along with Essex (and occasional trips with dad and my younger bro. to places like Harbour Town, for example), these books really sparked my interest, "bringing me to golf course architecture" as a teenager.

This web site?
 
I can't really remember how I found out about this web site; though, correspondence with Geoff Shackelford seems to ring a bell.

[Ryan Admussen]

Jeff,

Do you have anything on the schedule, new or renovation/restoration coming up in Alberta?

Did you do any work on the new nine at Wolf Creek? If so do you think the two nines that make the links course work well together?

Favorite course in Eastern Canada/Western Canada?

Great work on Blackhawk and Sagebrush, they are both at the top of my must play list!

[Jeff_Mingay]

Hi Ryan.

We have some things in development in Alberta... a couple new courses and some renovation work. But these projects aren't yet at a point where they'd be appropriate to discuss here now, unfortunately.

I didn't do any work on the new nine at Wolf Creek. I was running the Sagebrush job, and doing some reno. work at Wascana in Regina, Sask., at the time the new nine at Wolf Creek was under construction. But, I've walked the new nine at Wolf Creek a few times, and can confidently - and unbiasly - say I love these holes. The two nines that will make up the "Links course" there - the new nine combined with the South nine, which was built during the early 1990s - will work great together eventually. Some reno. work is planned on the South nine, to better match those holes with the new nine.

I'm not really a "favourite courses" kinda guy, so I'm going with my immediate gut reaction...

Favourite course in Eastern Canada? It's difficult not to say Cape Breton Highlands Links... and, imagine, so many of us know it can be so, so much better still.

Favourite course in Western Canada? I really like Jasper.

[Will MacEwen]

Jeff - interesting history on Richmond.  Makes complete sense - getting up and down there can be a real test.

Is the Raven's Ridge project (I may have the name wrong) still a possible go?

Thanks for doing this.  I hope to see you at Qualicum one day as part of your Macan studies.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Will,

Yes. Raven Ridge - as it's called at the moment - is still in development. I'm confident this project will happen, some time in the near future. Our site is about a kilometre inland, and just down the road from Gil Hanse's Union Bay project. Our hope - though probably not likely - is that we're building simultaneous with Gil and co. That'd be fun!

As I've mentioned, I need to get up to see the Qualicum Beach course next time I'm in Victoria. I will. Perhaps Qualicum fits into the "best preserved Macan course" category?   

[Dale Jackson]

Hi Jeff,

1. Favourite Tom Paul story.

2. Favourite aha moment working on a course.

3. Is there a more scenic stretch of holes than 3 through 10 at Victoria GC.

4. Best/ favourite NHL team

5. Guinness or Keiths

6. When are you in my neck of the woods next

[Anthony Gray]

  i went on this colege skii trip. we played broomball against a team of all girls. They beat us like 7-0. would it have been innappropiote to drop the girls. Most were bigger than us.

  Did you cry at the hockey gold?

  Do good putters make good curlers?

  Shouldn't Canada claim CBM?

  A

[Jeff_Mingay]

Hey Dale...

Favourite Tom Paul story

Tom's one of the first truly great guys I met through participation at this web site. 2000, I travel to Philadelphia. Playing Merion with my dad, Tom's friend Bill Dow (another stellar individual), and Kye Goalby. Tom Paul is walking with us. He's enjoying cigarettes along the way, but apparently runs out on the back nine. He bums a smoke off my 20-year old caddie at the 16th green... best Tom Paul story! No doubt.

Favourite aha moment working on a course

I think I know what you mean, but definte "aha"?

Is there a more scenic stretch of holes than 3 through 10 at Victoria GC

Yes. But that stretch of holes is something golfers who haven't played VGC need to experience to believe... no matter what we say, here.

Best/favourite NHL team

Growing up in Windsor, Ontario, it's always been Red Wings.

Guinness or Keiths

It's always nice to have a couple Guinness, but if we're in for the "long haul", I'll take Keiths 

When are you in my neck of the woods next

I'm planning to visit VGC the week of April 19, some time, for a few days.

Cheers,

[Jeff_Mingay]

Anthony,

I thought Dale's questions were good!

Would it have been inappropriate to drop the girls

Are you sure you were capable of "dropping the girls", to start? 

Did you cry at the hockey gold

No. But I did "know" the Americans were going to tie the game before the end of regulation. It happened 

Do good putters make good curlers

Excellent question... I have no clue

Shouldn't Canada claim CBM

We don't have to "claim him", he is Canadian! Born in Niagara Falls, Ontario 

[Anthony Gray]

  That's the thing. After being humiliated in broomball just imagine the greater humiliiaton of the defeat if the girls decided to drop the glooves. Don;t get me wrong....it would have been their idea, to drop 'em....we were scared.

  Anthony


  My typo. I ment drop the glooves before insted of droip the girls...Sorry.

  Anthony


  Putting on the  foil coach.




 

[Bill_McBride]

Jeff, have you seen and/or played Columbia-Edgewater?   There are a number of early photos of the course in the clubhouse and the routing seems intact although a clubhouse fire and busy street changed the 10th hole from a par 5 to a par 4.  I think the greens have been changed in a few cases but some may be close to original contours.

[Duane Sharpe]

During construction at Blackhawk Golf Club in Edmonton, Jeff used to invent trivial games to keep the staff interested while digging out bunkers or finishing greens. These games are still talked about in our shop today.  Since Jeff is put on the spot here on this site, I thought maybe he could answer some of the following questions........PLease choose one of the following!
Molson or Labatts?
Pine Valley or Pasatiempo?(two of Jeff's favorites)
opportunity to play Augusta or Cypress?
Family vacation to Florida or California?
Who has a better golf swing....Ben or Ian?(we have seen both)
Who's column do you read more Lorne or Robert?
Woulld you rather share a hotel room with Greg Doll or Tim Whitman?
Would you rather wear Rod's vest or Ack's sweat pants?
Who's hair cut would you rather wear for a day.......Al or Randy?
OK OK
on a more serious note
What is the best 4 hours ever spent on a golf course?
What is your lowest round of golf?
Have you ever walked off a golf course because of your your score?
Who provided the best conversation about golf in your life?

Cheers Jeff
Interesting post!
Sharpee

[Ian Andrew]

Jeff,

I like Duane’s idea of 20 questions….so:

McBroom or Carrick?
Cooke or Furbur?

Best dead Canadian designer not named Thompson, Macdonald or Macan?
Best Thompson course outside the big five?

Who’s the better architect Suny or Zokol?
Best hole at Sagebrush?

Is Cabot Links the best site in Canada?
If not what is it or where was it?

What one course best defines Canadian Golf?
What is the worst course in Canada or the biggest miss on a great site?

Best Par 3?
Best Short Par 4?
Best Long Par 4?
Best Par 5?

Pick your five course Canadian Open rotation?
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

If you could select any one project in Canada to do – what would it be?

(thanks for the idea Duane)

[Dale Jackson]

Jeff,

aha = holy shit, is that stupidly cool!

architects: Andrew or Mingay  Just kidding.

To follow on from Ian: other than Thompson or MacDonald (a stretch to claim him other than by birth) is there an ODG better than Macan.  I ask this seriously, not as a member of his first and best.

Another follow on from Ian - is there a Canadian golf architecture?

UK favourite?

[Jeff_Mingay]

Jeff, have you seen and/or played Columbia-Edgewater?   There are a number of early photos of the course in the clubhouse and the routing seems intact although a clubhouse fire and busy street changed the 10th hole from a par 5 to a par 4.  I think the greens have been changed in a few cases but some may be close to original contours.

Bill,

I haven't visited Columbia-Edgewater, yet. My brother used to caddie on the LPGA Tour though, and he's been to C-E more than a few times. I've received some detailed reporting from him about the course. As you say, Macan's routing seems to be nearly intact; but, like Shaughnessy for example, I understand many other changes (ie greens, bunkers, trees, etc.) have been made to the course over the years.

I have many reasons to travel to Portland someday soon; one is to see C-E.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Leave it to Sharpe! Geez... 

Molson or Labatts?
Molson Export

Pine Valley or Pasatiempo?(two of Jeff's favorites)
Pine Valley

opportunity to play Augusta or Cypress?
I’ve walked both but not played… Cypress

Family vacation to Florida or California?
California

Who has a better golf swing....Ben or Ian?(we have seen both)
What a question… I’m going with Ian 

Who's column do you read more Lorne or Robert?
I'm a Globe and Mail guy, so Lorne. But I do think Thompson does a better job at featuring architecture related topics more often

Woulld you rather share a hotel room with Greg Doll or Tim Whitman?
This undoubtedly the most ridiculous question anyone has ever asked me 

Would you rather wear Rod's vest or Ack's sweat pants?
No… this is the most ridiculous question anyone has ever asked me (I’m laughing really hard right now!) 

Who's hair cut would you rather wear for a day.......Al or Randy?
No, wait… this is the most ridiculous question anyone has ever asked me. I’ll answer though, and you might be surprised: I'm going with Randy

OK OK
on a more serious note
What is the best 4 hours ever spent on a golf course?
Hmmm… this is a tough question. Maybe the last time I played the Old Course, actually. I played in a twosome with the nicest guy from Dundee, who had his young son caddying for him. It was a very pleasant round, even though we played into a 50 mph headwind on the way out and 50 mph downwind heading home!

What is your lowest round of golf?
I’ve never been lower than 75; the three 75s I remember most were at St. George’s (Toronto), Jasper (beat Whitman!), and Essex.

Have you ever walked off a golf course because of your your score?
Nope.

Who provided the best conversation about golf in your life?
Another tough one… but, I’ll say – overall - my dad.