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George Pazin

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Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« on: April 13, 2010, 06:02:56 PM »
Apologies in advance for the self-indulgence; I promised several people who agreed to do threads that I would eventually do one myself. I allowed for a short break around the Masters, as I didn't want anyone's thread to get overlooked, and it seemed like as good a time as any to get mine out of the way.

I'm prepared to answer any and all questions regarding:

1) the Stillers on the field activities... :)
2) the Pens
3) Pitt basketball
4) Ayn Rand
5) general math
6) Green Day and the Foo Fighters
7) kettlebells
8) lots of other BS you choose to throw my way...

 :)

I will also be doing something a little different: I plan on relating stories of my experiences in dealings with gca'ers. They're a wonderful bunch, I'd hardily encourage you to get know others by attending any and all outings.

As for the series itself, I'd have to say I think we've experienced mixed success. By and large the threads themselves have been terrific - I can't honestly think of any that got anything other than positive input, save one minor incident that I discussed with the particular individuals involved. I think this is a tribute to all of the terrific members we have on this very special site.

The only negative I can see is that I don't feel we've really had the carry-over to other threads that I had hoped in terms of more positive discussions, but maybe that's simply a matter of time.

Have at it, I'll do my best to answer, as long as no one is wiring a wire...anything I say can and will be held against me in a court of law.

-----

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Full list:

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« Last Edit: April 17, 2010, 11:09:45 AM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Bill_McBride

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Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2010, 06:20:27 PM »
I can hear the wheels whirring in Tennessee.......

This should be interesting, George, have fun!

When and how did you start playing golf?

Have you played Oakmont yet?

What did you think of #16 at Black Mesa?  (aka "Stairway to the Stars")

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2010, 06:22:27 PM »
What brought you to golf?

Golf course architecture?

This website?
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2010, 06:27:12 PM »
George,

Honestly what do you think of Black Mesa?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2010, 06:32:06 PM »
Does appropriate attire on the golf course include t-shirts?

With the opening of Target Field, is PNC now the second-best ballpark in America?

One song that could get you up to fast dance at a wedding reception?

Favorite thriller writers? :)
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2010, 06:40:50 PM »
Is Big Ben still the man in town...are Steller fans OK with whatever he does as long as he wins a big trophy every couple of years?

(oops, sorry didn't see qualifier #1 until after post...ifeel free to ignore)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 06:42:46 PM by Don_Mahaffey »

Adam Clayman

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Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2010, 06:56:47 PM »
When do you plan on getting a set for the tiniest Pazin?

Have you ever had a debate with anyone, about Ayn Rand, only to find out they have never read her?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 08:23:04 PM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2010, 08:13:45 PM »
George:

Lifetime Cleveland Browns fan here. ;D Questions:

-- When the Steelers were winning all those Super Bowls in the 1970s, how come they could never do better than 1-1 vs. my Brownies in any given season?

-- Better QB: Terry Bradshaw or Brian Sipe?

-- Better RB: Franco Harris or Greg Pruitt?

-- Joe "Turkey" Jones: Still vilified in Steel-town?

-- Best place for a quick bite: Primanti Bros. or the West Side Market?

Seriously, how'd you get into the T-shirt biz?






Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2010, 10:00:03 PM »
I'm glad your time has come - you have always been an asset to this community of voices.


Ayn Rand and Golf it is…. :)

Name the current golf architect who would best fulfill these roles:

Henry Cameron –
Peter Keating –
Howard Roark -


George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2010, 11:30:25 PM »
What brought you to golf?

Golf course architecture?

This website?

I figured this would be an early question. :)

I started playing at age 29 (I'm 43 now). I always wanted to play earlier, but didn't think I could afford it, time or money-wise (still can't). My best friend used to say his bachelor party would be a golf trip. He called me up one day to say he got engaged, and I was out on a course the next day learning. The trip ended up being about 10 months later, to Tampa, where I got my first tastes of lots of water on a golf course at TPC Tampa. I did okay, and by the end of the trip, I was completely hooked.

Re: architecture, I've always enjoyed reading, so I started off reading golf instruction books, then moved on to history books and bios. One day I stumbled across The Captain by Geoff Shackelford and became intrigued with the architectural elements of the book. Moved on to The Golden Age... and I became somewhat obsessed with architecture at that time.

Re: this website, following my interest in architecture, I read Golf Magazine's Top 10 You Can Play list in spring '99 and had the opportunity to play Tobacco Road. I was intrigued and came back and did a web search shortly thereafter on Mike Strantz, which led to the interview on golfclubatlas. I started scanning the list of interviews and, low and behold, there were some the names of the authors of the books I had been reading - Shackelford, Doak, etc. I read the interviews, the course profiles, and eventually stumbled across the discussion group a couple months later and became one of the earliest addicts. I can still remember my first post, my first thread and (likely) my first battles, after the 99 Ryder Cup!

My experiences with Mac - Shortly after Mac came on board, he and I jousted (in a friendly manner) over business book recommendations to another poster on here. Not more than a couple weeks later, what arrived at my shop but a book he and I had mentioned but I never purchased. Thanks, Mac, that was exceedingly thoughtful.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2010, 11:47:51 PM »
I can hear the wheels whirring in Tennessee.......

This should be interesting, George, have fun!

When and how did you start playing golf?

Have you played Oakmont yet?

What did you think of #16 at Black Mesa?  (aka "Stairway to the Stars")

As I mentioned to Mac, I started playing 14 years ago (in '96, just before Tiger won his 3rd Am, but I really didn't know who he was, so don't blame him...). I mostly played that summer at local mom and pop 9 holers (the kind of courses where "500 yard par 5s" are reachable with 2 5 irons :)) and at my still home course, North Park Golf Course, a wonderful old muni north of Pittsburgh.

I've never really discussed my own experiences at Oakmont - don't know if anyone ever picked up on that in those threads - because I didn't want them to be a distraction. I've only played it once, a long long time ago, when I really shouldn't have, I wasn't nearly good enough. My love affair with the course really blossomed during the 2003 Amateur, when I walked the course every day from the first practice day to the final round with the swashbuckling Aussie and Casey Wittenberg. I was fortunate enough to meet a member that last day, and though I've had several invitations to play since, life has conspired to prevent me from joining him. It's probably for the best, though, as I don't have the game to play it right now. It's not a course you can really enjoy when you are a very sporadic golfer like me. I haven't played anywhere in about 18 months now. :(

The 16th at Black Mesa? Wow, that's a tough one for me to answer honestly... I can't say I much cared for it, mostly because the tee shot seemed way too difficult for most to find any sort of reasonable result. I may have been one of the few golfers that day that really liked the green, however. Or maybe a lot did and my memory is just fuzzy... My feelings for Black Mesa always seem to draw out criticism from others - mostly Matt! - but I did enjoy the course very much. More to follow in my response to Garland.

My experiences with Bill McBride - One of my very favorite people I've met on this site. Warm in a very genuine way. I've been fortunate enough to tee it up twice with Bill down in Florida, as my wife's sister lives in Pensacola and we've visited her a couple times. Those were two highly enjoyable rounds, let me tell you, I highly recommend looking Bill up if you find yourself down there. The first time, we were playing with Mike Golden and Bill's son (David? apologies for not remembering). I felt sorry for Mike, as he was teamed with me, and I'm not a dream partner for any good golfer. But Bill's son said to me at one point, how many posts do you have on gca? I said, I think around 3,000 which at the time, put me around 11th or so on the list. Bill said with a grin, that's not something to be proud of... :) Have you looked at our respective totals lately, Bill? ;D Thanks for being a good friend.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2010, 11:51:33 PM »
George,

What's the better album, 1039 Smooth... or Kerplunk?

Green Day is playing a five-song set and you get to choose them. Which five?

Has Dave Grohl proven to be as good a songwriter as Kurt Cobain?


George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2010, 11:55:42 PM »
George,

Honestly what do you think of Black Mesa?


A dagger to the heart of the issue, how very Garland-like! :)

I loved Black Mesa, and I loved my day there. I just had one issue with the course, which has been hashed and rehashed so many times that it has led people to believe I did not like the course: I thought - and still think - it is a bit too tough for casual high handicappers like me, so it isn't a course I would recommend someone like me go out of his way to play. But I'd likely say the same thing about several of the courses that are on everyone's top 10 list as well.

For me, a course like Rawls, which I played on the same trip, is infinitely preferrable. It fits my own (peculiar) notions of what a golf course is much better. I fully understand this is a bias of mine, and I'd tell anyone that straight up.

My experiences with Garland - Garland and I often trade private messages, usually about analytical questions, as he has a very similar, scientifically slanted outlook as I. I've come to respect Garland's intellect a great deal, even if we're on opposite sides of an issue. I wish I could have attended the Grudge Match, I think I would've fit in rather well with he and Kalen. :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Matt Bosela

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2010, 12:03:06 AM »
George,

I never would have guessed that you had only played Oakmont once!

- What is your favorite hole there, and why?
- What is your least favorite hole there, and why?
- What is your favourite public access facility in the Pittsburgh area and what does it offer to fans of GCA?
- Is Ben Roethlisberger the Tiger Woods of football?  Are you (still) a fan of his?

EDIT: Just saw qualifier number one as well ;)  Feel free to avoid the Big Ben question (and you've kind of answered it anyway)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 12:24:18 AM by Matt Bosela »

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2010, 12:09:45 AM »
Does appropriate attire on the golf course include t-shirts?

With the opening of Target Field, is PNC now the second-best ballpark in America?

One song that could get you up to fast dance at a wedding reception?

Favorite thriller writers? :)

T shirts are fine, as long as they're accepted by whomever runs the course. At my home muni, you're lucky sometimes if a guy is wearing any shirt! I always err on the side of overdressing when in doubt - at the first golfclubatlas outing I attended, I was one of the few guys wearing long pants...

Haven't been to Target Field, but PNC Park is terrific for sure. Too bad at least one of the teams playing there generally stinks. But at least I can remember the glory days of We Are Family in 79...

The songs I like are almost never played at wedding receptions, not even my own. At my own wedding, my wife and I danced to a specially recorded acoustic version of Everlong by Foo Fighters - they hadn't released theirs officially yet, so I had a Burgh rock star friend of mine record it. I was supposed to sing the vocals, but never had the chance to get down to the studio before the wedding, so there was no vocal track. My wife is still po'd at me for that one...as is the friend who recorded the tracks. Maybe I'll lay down the vocals one day for an anniversary present.

Favorite thriller writer? That's a loaded question for sure! :) You know I'm one of your biggest fans, I've wielded my sadly minimal influence to push your book up the ranks at Amazon. Aside from you, my favorite is probably Robert Ferrigno. I've read all of Connelly Stephen Hunter and Lee Child, a smattering of Patterson and Coben, and lately I've been making my way through some Robert Crais. How are things looking for Frozen Tundra?

My experiences with Rick - Another one of my site favorites, as clear a thinker as there is on the site. Someday in the not too distant future, hopefully, I will make it up to Minn. and tee it up with my favorite author as well as my favorite editor. Rick and Dan Kelly are two of the people I turn to first for clear thinking on most any subject! The occasional message I get from either always puts a smile on my face - even if they're just telling me I'm crazy.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2010, 12:13:24 AM »
When is your Birthday?

 ;D
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2010, 12:17:42 AM »
Is Big Ben still the man in town...are Steller fans OK with whatever he does as long as he wins a big trophy every couple of years?

(oops, sorry didn't see qualifier #1 until after post...ifeel free to ignore)

No apologies necessary! The city is somewhat divided right now - seems like half think he's an effin' idiot, the other half think he's an effin' scumbag! Yikes.

I'm not too sure what to think at this stage about him personally. I think he is flat out the best quarterback in the league right now, at least until Brady recovers fully, but he better grow up or he will be following Santonio out the door. There are all sorts of crazy rumors flying around the Burgh right now - at least I hope they're crazy. Bottom line to me is that I think few have any real idea what has happened in either instance. It's hard for me to condemn a guy for partying, but I do start to wonder if where there's smoke, there's fire. I wouldn't want him dating one of my sisters, at any rate!

My experiences with Don - Yet another tremendous guy I've been lucky enough to tee it up with. Everyone on here knows and respects Don's knowledge of the golf industry - as they should, it's no coincidence someone once said any thread Don posts in is automatically a great thread. What you probably don't know about Don is that he can flat out play! He has one of those tour pro smooth swings that results in a picture perfect ball flight. Don is maybe the first person on this site I'd call if I had a serious question on golf course construction or maintenance, and on this site, that is really saying something.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2010, 12:28:37 AM »
When do you plan on getting a set for the tiniest Pazin?

Have you ever had a debate with anyone, about Ayn Rand, only to find out they have never read her?

I'm hoping to get Jason out maybe next year sometime. He's 6 now and has expressed some interest. But unfortunately he has gotten his mom's athletic genes. I'm no superstar athlete, but I can get by. The two of them are quite a pair...

I'd say it's almost the rule that someone arguing with me about Ayn hasn't read her. You can instantly tell they are speaking from secondhand (pun intended) knowledge by the way they characterize her work.

I'd argue that's a by-product of our educational system today - constantly boost people self esteem, tell them their opinions count, but don't actually teach them to read anything, research anything or think about anything.

My experiences with Adam - Yet another of my site favorites, someone I consider a true friend and kindred spirit. The big redhead picked me up at the Albuquerque airport on the NM outing trip 6 years ago; we hadn't met other than through our exchanges on the site. Within minutes I felt like I was catching up with one of my oldest friends. Our few days driving and golfing in west Texas were really special - a simpler and clearer time for me, for sure. One of the biggest of my many regrets in my life is that I haven't been able to take him up on his many offers to join him for some golf in Nebraska and Colorado. Someday soon, my friend.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2010, 12:42:26 AM »
George:

Lifetime Cleveland Browns fan here. ;D Questions:

-- When the Steelers were winning all those Super Bowls in the 1970s, how come they could never do better than 1-1 vs. my Brownies in any given season?

-- Better QB: Terry Bradshaw or Brian Sipe?

-- Better RB: Franco Harris or Greg Pruitt?

-- Joe "Turkey" Jones: Still vilified in Steel-town?

-- Best place for a quick bite: Primanti Bros. or the West Side Market?

Seriously, how'd you get into the T-shirt biz?







Sorry to hear that, Phil, you have my condolences. :) Of course Bradshaw and Franco, though I always enjoyed our games against Sipe and Pruitt. My dad in particular was always a great admirer of Sipe. Several of my best friends in college were from Cleveland, and they cringed when we first met at school, given the rivalry. But as I've always said, deep down, everyone is a Steeler fan, and they eventually relented....I've always hated the Cowboys and Raiders a lot more than the Browns, but that's probably because they were the bigger obstacles during the Golden Age of Pro Football.

I still hate Turkey Jones.

I will always love Primanti Bros. Right up there with Philly cheesesteaks as the ultimate guy food.

I stumbled into my t shirt business. I was a math geek at school and followed half of my class of '89 up to NYC and Wall Street. Was a scumbag investment banker :) for 2 years and I hated it - it wasn't at all stimulating to the brain, only to the wallet, and I really struggled in the intensely overwhelming office politics. So I went off with a friend in search of fame and fortune elsewhere, most importantly, as my own boss. My original idea was selling medical scrubs with college logos, kind of like the college boxer craze that took off while I was in college in the late 80s. We had limited success, which prompted my partner leaving (he's back on Wall Street, but still one of my closest friends); I still believed, so I bought the equipment to print the scrubs on my own. Taught myself how to print - occasionally I have a client who asks if I went to art school - I laugh and tell them I was a math major. I filled the down time with printing for other people, and eventually that was the part of the business that survived.

And survived is probably being charitable. But that is a story for tomorrow (or should I say later today).

Sorry I don't have many experiences with Phil to share, other than the occasional message we exchange, usually where I'm telling him he's right and Matt's wrong. :) Hopefully we'll tee it up someday.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2010, 12:51:01 AM »
I'm glad your time has come - you have always been an asset to this community of voices.


Ayn Rand and Golf it is…. :)

Name the current golf architect who would best fulfill these roles:

Henry Cameron –
Peter Keating –
Howard Roark -



Thanks for the kind words. The parallels to The Fountainhead are pretty clear to me, with Pete Dye as Henry Cameron and Tom Doak as Howard Roark (hope I didn't scare off Tom with that comment, trust me, it's a compliment). I can't name a Peter Keating, that wouldn't be fair, especially as I don't know too many other architects personally.

Gotta think Trump is Wynand, in so many ways. Who's Dominique? :)

My experiences with Ian - Another amazing person on this site. A true gentleman, a deep thinker, just an all around great guy. I can remember being impressed many years ago with his clear thinking on many different golf courses - Pine Valley really springs to mind. Twenty years ago I thought I'd amount to a lot more in life. If I had, I'd like to think I'd be standing with Ian and Mike Nuzzo at different sites around the country, having a lot of fun. I wish I could help both, though I know they don't need the help. Heck, they'll probably end up helping me in a few years... :)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 11:01:12 PM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2010, 12:51:56 AM »
George,

What's the better album, 1039 Smooth... or Kerplunk?

Green Day is playing a five-song set and you get to choose them. Which five?

Has Dave Grohl proven to be as good a songwriter as Kurt Cobain?



These are seriously deep issues that must be slept on overnight. :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2010, 12:54:51 AM »
Matt B, I'll think about your questions overnight and respond later.

When is your Birthday?

 ;D


Must be why I'm so reflective tonight...

-----

Good night, everyone, sorry for monopolizing the top of the board for the last hour+. More tomorrow, hope you can take it.

 :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jason McNamara

Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2010, 01:20:27 AM »
Thanks for the kind words. The parallels to The Fountainhead are pretty clear to me, with Pete Dye as Henry Cameron and Tom Doak as Howard Roark (hope I didn't scare off Tom with that comment, trust me, it's a compliment). I can't name a Peter Keating, that wouldn't be fair, especially as I don't know too many other architects personally.

Gotta think Trump is Wynand, in so many ways. Who's Dominique? :)

Better yet - who is (was) Ellsworth Toohey?

Anthony Gray

Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2010, 06:35:56 AM »


  Georgr,

  Happy Birthday.

  Did you talk to Ran before you started this thread?

  What nationality was Foge Fazio?

  Where did Jackie Sherrel first meet Bill Fralic?

  What do you think of Cruden Bay?

  Will this thread go as long as GTK Mike Young?

  Is Ben Roethlesberger hard to spell?

  What's your favorite scene from THE FISH THAT SAVED PITTSBURGH?

  Why can't the Panthers make a final four?

  Which Pirate catcher had a gap between his two front teeth big enough for a match box car?

  Pops,Clemente,Hebner,taveras,Parker,Doc.....What ever happened to the good ol days?

  Thanks for playing.....Anthony



Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2010, 06:44:39 AM »
George

This series has been great and I appreciate all your effort in making it happen!

Are the Pens one and done?  The Pens didn't finish like they did last year and it seems to me their defense is not what it was last year with the loss of Scuderi (I like this guy a lot and wish the Wings could have afforded him) and Gill.  I know they picked up Leopold in a bit of a flyer deal to see what comes of this yet unproven man.  Is this enough to keep the barbarians at the gate?  

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing