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George Pazin

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Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« on: December 16, 2009, 05:09:27 PM »
Andrew has been gracious enough to agree to do a thread, and this is likely the last of 2009, as I don't want anyone to get lost amidst the holidays.

Andrew is another Aussie poster, which automatically puts him 1 up in my book, and his friendship with Scott Warren surely gets him another win, so he's starting off 2 up, on me at least.

I'll try to find some bio info from the WAYGs thread, in the meantime, start thinking up questions for another poster from down under (and surely not the last).

-----

On deck: Who knows who will kick off the new year? Only me...
(that is to say, I know who it is, not that it is me)

Previous 5 participants:

Charlie Goerges

Joe Hancock

Kelly Blake Moran

Scott Warren

Jordan Wall

Full list:

Full list of GTK participants
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

David_Elvins

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2009, 05:34:06 PM »


Andrew,

How many courses have you played?  Do you know how many of the 'top 100' you have played?
 
Do you have a favourite architect? 

What is your top 'hidden gem' from each continent? 

What is your favorite hole and why?

What's your honest opinion on the Pete Dye courses you have played?   ;D

Does playing exclusive golf courses ever sit uncomfortably with your modest Christian beliefs? 

Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2009, 06:09:26 PM »
George

This should be good reading - thanks for organising same


Andrew

When did you first get interested in golf ?

When did you become a serious GCA student ?

Are you left handed at most other things ?

Why did you give up your promising cricket career ?

What would have been your backup profession if not in music ?

If you could go to one course anywhere in the World for a game - where would it be ? and who would you take with you to complete your 4B (I think I can guess the answer to the first part)  ;D ?



Scott Warren

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2009, 08:18:01 PM »
How did you go from being a very good junior golfer to a 10-11 marker who occasionally walks onto the tee without a club or ball?

At what point in your golf career did course architecture appreciation usurp the card & pencil?

Mark or Steve Waugh?

What is the most outrageous thing you have ever worn on stage?

Why don't you rate Jimmy Page more highly as a guitarist?

Have you ever met Dave Gilmour from Pink Floyd? If so, please do share the story! ;)

You are given a five-song opening set for the band of your choice. Which band and what songs would you play?

What magazines have you rated for?

Which course is the biggest missed opportunity in Australia?

Matthew Mollica

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2009, 06:56:54 AM »
Andrew,

First of all, let me just say - I'm always impressed by your intelligent views on all things we ever seem to discuss.

How did you first get introduced to golf?

What moved you to architectural appreciation?

Do you know of anyone who like you possesses such an eclectic mix of passions and interests?

I've gone through my list of friends and noone else seems to get close to -

*Masters in Theology,
* A deep appreciation of H.S.Colt course architecture, and
* A history of playing in a Christian heavy metal band...

MM
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Andrew Summerell

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2009, 08:26:34 AM »

I'll try to find some bio info from the WAYGs thread

I'm not sure if I ever posted in detail in the WAYG's threads, so I'll save George some work.

I live in Sydney, Australia these days, but have lived in many parts of the world.

I'm 43, married with two children.

I'm a professional musician/composer. Having toured in heavy metal bands from the mid 80’s through to the mid 90’s, I now mostly compose for film & TV & for manufactured pop singers who couldn’t write a song to save their life.

And to correct a few things that Matt Mollica wrote about me, I only have a Degree in Theology. My Masters Degree is in Music & I have never played in a Christian heavy metal band, especially when you consider some of the bands I played in were Mortal Sin & Onslaught (plus a few ‘Hair’ metal bands I may mention later) So I’m sorry Matt, I’m not as diverse as you thought.

I'll answer the other questions tomorrow, as it's past mid-night here & I just can't rock & roll all night & party everyday like I use to.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2009, 12:44:10 PM »
How is your hearing?

I always wondered how rock n rollers would be able to hear later in life.  Early in my career in the convention and special events business I would hear bands practicing or performing and wonder how their ears could hold up that wall of sound

Jason Topp

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2009, 01:08:50 PM »
Where did you grow up?

Favorite place you have lived?

Favorite course in Sydney?

Do you have any recommendations for books that are revealing regarding life in Australia?

Best round of golf?

I don’t know anything about your music career – what instrument?

My kids listen to that manufactured pop music and it drives me nuts.  Any advice on how to wean them or is it a lost cause I should give up?

Name a course that disappointed you and why.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2009, 01:54:41 PM »
As Anthony seems to have gone missing trying to regain sanity apparently, have you played Cruden Bay?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Tim Bert

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2009, 03:26:05 PM »
Wikipedia (yes, consider the source) doesn't list your name under either band you mentioned and they have lots of names listed.  Any reason why?  Do you have a stage name? 

I'd love to know what other bands you were part of when you are ready to share.

What are your favorite styles of music to listen to when relaxing at home?



Garland Bayley

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2009, 03:35:00 PM »
... some of the bands I played in were Mortal Sin ...

Mortal Sin sounds like the perfect name for a Christian heavy metal band.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

George Pazin

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2009, 05:37:31 PM »
I'm not sure if I ever posted in detail in the WAYG's threads, so I'll save George some work.

I live in Sydney, Australia these days, but have lived in many parts of the world.

I'm 43, married with two children.

I'm a professional musician/composer. Having toured in heavy metal bands from the mid 80’s through to the mid 90’s, I now mostly compose for film & TV & for manufactured pop singers who couldn’t write a song to save their life.

And to correct a few things that Matt Mollica wrote about me, I only have a Degree in Theology. My Masters Degree is in Music & I have never played in a Christian heavy metal band, especially when you consider some of the bands I played in were Mortal Sin & Onslaught (plus a few ‘Hair’ metal bands I may mention later) So I’m sorry Matt, I’m not as diverse as you thought.

I'll answer the other questions tomorrow, as it's past mid-night here & I just can't rock & roll all night & party everyday like I use to.

I never did find anything, so thanks for providing some intro material. You're waaaaaaay older than me, I don't turn 43 till April...alas, I have but one little bundle (well, he's 5 and not really a little bundle anymore). Very cool life experiences, can't wait to hear more.

Btw, I have serious hearing loss from spending too many late nights with a good friend of mine's band in their bid to make it (they didn't, but put out some good music and good times, and it's how I met my wife, so some good came out of it).

Standard questions:

What brought you to golf?

Architecture?

This site?

Thanks for playing along.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Andrew Thomson

Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2009, 06:02:59 PM »
I'd ask you some questions, but I'm not sure you have time to answer what is already there!

Andrew Summerell

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2009, 06:54:17 PM »
How many courses have you played?  Do you know how many of the 'top 100' you have played?
Do you have a favourite architect? 
What is your top 'hidden gem' from each continent? 
What is your favorite hole and why?
What's your honest opinion on the Pete Dye courses you have played?   ;D
Does playing exclusive golf courses ever sit uncomfortably with your modest Christian beliefs? 
Hi David,

A friend sat me down over a bottle of wine a few years ago & worked out how many courses I had played. It was in the high 600’s, but I’ve played many first time courses since, so it would be around the 750 mark. There was a list a few years ago that had me as playing 70 of the world top 100, but that number has probably decreased with new courses being listed that I haven’t played.

My favourite architect (or should I say designer) is HS Colt. I’ve been fortunate enough to play quite a few of his courses over the years.

My top hidden gem from each continent is difficult as many of the courses that would be considered hidden gems are well known to people on here. In Australia I still love Port Fairy & I believe Duntryleagues to be an inland hidden gem. In the UK it would be somewhere like Moray or Western Gailes, or even Littlestone. Most the courses that I have played in the US are well known to people here & I knew a fair bit about them before the round, but the one that probably surprised me the most was Westhampton. As far as the rest of the world is concerned, I’ve only played 1 course in Ireland, 1 course in South Africa, only a few of the more famous courses in Europe & barely played in Asia, so no real hidden gems there.

I’m not good at deciding on favourite holes as I’m a little too Gen X, but I will say I love the diagonal features at North Berwick (West) & how they have impacted design around the world to this day.

What is my opinion on the Pete Dye courses I have played? I know you know the answer to this one & you are a devious soul. Let me just say I’m sure Pete is a lovely guy & a wonderful husband, father & grandfather.

Playing at exclusive clubs does not make me feel uncomfortable, but there have been a few clubs that I would choose not to join if invited. Not to condemn those who are members there as it is their choice, it just wouldn’t be my choice.

Andrew Summerell

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2009, 07:22:31 PM »
When did you first get interested in golf ?
When did you become a serious GCA student ?
Are you left handed at most other things ?
Why did you give up your promising cricket career ?
What would have been your backup profession if not in music ?
If you could go to one course anywhere in the World for a game - where would it be ? and who would you take with you to complete your 4B (I think I can guess the answer to the first part)  ;D ?
Hi Kevin,

I first became interested in golf around the age of 12. I was interested in the design of courses right from the start, but like many people here ‘The World Atlas of Golf’ was a big starting point for me. I think I received that when I was about 16. From then onwards I was interested in playing new courses & finding out why some are considered better than others.

I’m left handed at two handed sports & right handed for the rest. When I first played guitar at the age of 9 I was left handed, but my first guitar was strung up right handed & my first tutor said, “I’m not re-stringing that damn thing. You don’t know anything, so just play it right handed.” I’m sort of happy I do now.

My cricket was promising at a state level & I was offered a state contract at the age of 19. I would have been making enough money to play cricket full time, but only as a young man with no wife, kids or mortgage. I was making more money as a musician, so I had to make a choice. I saw a guy a few years younger than me by the name of Michael Slater & knew I had seen the future of opening. It was then that I realised I didn’t have what it takes to hold down a Test spot, so the decision was an easy one.

As far as a back up profession to music, I made a pact with myself at the age of 15 to never have a job that required the wearing of boots. Everyone I saw that wore boots seemed to work hard & I didn’t like the idea of that.

The one course would be North Berwick (West). (Yes, that's obvious for those who know me) As far as the 4B goes, I would take 3 friends who are interested in Golf design who haven’t played there yet. If I found a 4th person, I would give up my spot & just walk with them.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 07:25:09 PM by Andrew Summerell »

Andrew Summerell

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2009, 01:09:54 AM »
How did you go from being a very good junior golfer to a 10-11 marker who occasionally walks onto the tee without a club or ball?
At what point in your golf career did course architecture appreciation usurp the card & pencil?
Mark or Steve Waugh?
What is the most outrageous thing you have ever worn on stage?
Why don't you rate Jimmy Page more highly as a guitarist?
Have you ever met Dave Gilmour from Pink Floyd? If so, please do share the story! ;)
You are given a five-song opening set for the band of your choice. Which band and what songs would you play?
What magazines have you rated for?
Which course is the biggest missed opportunity in Australia?
Hi Scott,

How’s the snow going? It has been so hot the last 2 nights it’s been hard to sleep here.

My golf firstly went down hill in my 20’s when I started touring as a guitarist. It enabled me to play many of the great courses around the world, but it also meant I was unable to play regularly. The next thing that killed my game was my ongoing knee injury over the last 8 years or so. I’ve just had knee surgery, but I won’t be holding my breath for my game to come back when I start playing again next March.

I probably stopped caring about my score sometime in my 20’s. I remember a day at Prairie Dunes where I was hacking it around shockingly, then it occurred to me, “I’m playing Prairie Dunes. Why should I care about the score.”

Mark or Steve Waugh? You know the answer to that one. My opinions about them are like chalk & cheese. I have a lot of time for Steve. He is good company & an extremely good man.

I wore a lot of outrageous garments while I was touring. It went with the territory. A few looked more like ladies lingerie & I still love my red suede high heel boots. Of course, I was extremely thin back in those days, so leather pants didn’t look so bad. Unlike Yngwie, I have put the leather pants away for good.

Jimmy Page is one of the most overrated guitarist of all time, even though I quite like Led Zep. His solos were never much more than Pentatonic based & his phrasing was often poor. His was also technically messy. I have always been a fan of Dave Gilmour though.

I was playing Wentworth West with a mate & the two ball in front asked if we wanted to join them. They were talking about airplanes & one of the guys was definitely a pilot. On the 5th hole one of the guys asked what I did for a living. I said, “Musician”, he said, “So am I”. “What do you play” he asked, I said “guitar”, he said, “So do I.” I asked if he had a band & he looked at me strangely & said, “Yeah! A little combo called Pink Floyd.” I then realise I was speaking to Dave Gilmour. It was one of those surreal moments, because if you showed me a picture of Dave Gilmour I would know who it was immediately. He found it hilarious & we had a great day. I don’t think he is into golf that much though.

I was pretty disillusioned about my time as a panellist & I burnt my bridges quite thoroughly, so I am probably best not to go into details.

The biggest missed opportunity in Australia is St Michaels. Not only is the land better than the routing would suggest, but at the time they were designing it Eric Apperly was working next door at NSW. With the amount of collaboration we read about on some of the great courses designed in the 20’s & 30’s (especially in America) it has always astounded me that they didn’t at least ask his opinion.


Richard Chamberlain

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2009, 01:20:19 AM »
Hypothetically, if you were a "young' up and coming designer in his mid forties, what would you recommend to him/her.
Also bear in mind in this answer he/she has no other income and needs to solely earn his/her  bread and butter in golf course design.


Andrew Summerell

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2009, 01:26:50 AM »
First of all, let me just say - I'm always impressed by your intelligent views on all things we ever seem to discuss.
How did you first get introduced to golf?
What moved you to architectural appreciation?
Do you know of anyone who like you possesses such an eclectic mix of passions and interests?
Thanks Matty,

First of all, just let me say – I too am always impressed by my intelligent views on all things we ever seem to discuss.

I started to play because friends played. I initially moved to an appreciation of GCA because a friend from school who was a member at the same club I was could never remember where the bunkers were at our home course, whereas I could remember every single bunker on every course I played. When we played junior pennants at other courses, before the round I would go through the bunkers that would come into play for his game, otherwise he would just thump away & end up disappointed when he found his ball in a bunker he didn’t know was there.

As far as an eclectic mix of passions and interests, in the music industry you come across some amazing people who are into things you could never imagine, so I don’t see myself as being that unusual.

BTW, great top 50 list yet again. You are an inspiration.

Andrew Summerell

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2009, 01:29:37 AM »
How is your hearing?

I always wondered how rock n rollers would be able to hear later in life.  Early in my career in the convention and special events business I would hear bands practicing or performing and wonder how their ears could hold up that wall of sound

Bill, my hearing is pretty good actually, although I did rehearse in ear muffs most my life.

Andrew Summerell

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2009, 02:42:12 AM »
Where did you grow up?
Favorite place you have lived?
Favorite course in Sydney?
Do you have any recommendations for books that are revealing regarding life in Australia?
Best round of golf?
I don’t know anything about your music career – what instrument?
My kids listen to that manufactured pop music and it drives me nuts.  Any advice on how to wean them or is it a lost cause I should give up?
Name a course that disappointed you and why.
Jason,

I mostly grow up in Sydney, but my parents were in musical theatre, so there was a little moving around. My mum was the first Maria in a professional production of Sound of Music in Australia. A role she reprised two more times. I saw that show so many times as a young boy, when it comes on TV now I find myself rocking back & forth in the fetal position in the corner of our family room.

My favourite city that I have lived would be London or Dublin.

My favourite course in Sydney is NSW, but my home club is Newcastle, which is 2 hours north of Sydney.

I have no recommendations regarding books on Australian life, it just needs to be experienced first hand.

I don’t know if I have a ‘best’ round of golf, but I’ve had some pretty good days on the course for various reasons. Playing Royal St Georges with a retired Army colonel was an experience. Playing Moore Park with a guy who was lead off the 15th green by police because he had escaped from gaol while on day release. Playing Lundin Links with a guy in his late 70’s who was 3 under after nine, then turned to me, shook my hand & said, “Nine is all I play, Sonny”. He then walked across in front of the 11th green to the road where I assume his car was parked. All good days.

Musically, I play a whole bunch of instruments, but guitar is my main one. Maybe if your kids learnt an instrument they may come to appreciate music more & lose interest in superficial pop.

One course that disappointed me was Harbour Town. I know that my opinion won’t be popular, but I felt much of the bunker placement was based on ‘the look’ & too many holes merely required a drive down the middle without a great deal of thinking of what side of the fairway I needed to approach from. I played the course twice & spent two days watching the tournament. Kauri Cliffs was a massive disappointment as well. What a missed opportunity that was.

Andrew Summerell

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2009, 02:46:54 AM »
As Anthony seems to have gone missing trying to regain sanity apparently, have you played Cruden Bay?


Yes, I have. And I hope to be back there in 2011.

Andrew Summerell

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2009, 03:02:15 AM »
Wikipedia (yes, consider the source) doesn't list your name under either band you mentioned and they have lots of names listed.  Any reason why?  Do you have a stage name? 
I'd love to know what other bands you were part of when you are ready to share.
What are your favorite styles of music to listen to when relaxing at home?
Tim,

Yes, I actually have two nom de plumes. One for composition & one for performance. Basically the first band I was in that signed a recording contract decided to use our nicknames on the album sleave. I was hired by the band Europe not long after that to fill in for John Norum who left the band just before they were to start a tour & my nickname just stuck from that time on. One of my nom de plumes actually has a Wikipedia page I was told.

Most of the work I have done has been as a touring musician (or session musician) who is hired to fill in when someone has left or is injured etc. So I’m not really part of the band, except for the period of time they require me. The biggest tour I was involved in was with Whitesnake when Adrian Vandenburg injured his wrist.

I listen to all forms of music, from classical through to Jazz, traditional Blues & Rock. I still listen to some of the new heavy metal like Avenge Sevenfold & Bullet For My Valentine, which I enjoy.

Andrew Summerell

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2009, 03:12:11 AM »
Standard questions:
What brought you to golf?
Architecture?
This site?

George,

Thanks for asking me.

Regarding architecture, I am minimalist in my views. I prefer bunkers to have a purpose, even if that purpose is merely to visually affect the playing line. I prefer courses that require the golfer to approach the green from the edge of the fairway. I’m madly in love with links golf & I only watch tournament on TV when they are playing at a course I like.

I enjoy this site because you can generally learn something each time you visit.

Andrew Summerell

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2009, 03:26:49 AM »
Hypothetically, if you were a "young' up and coming designer in his mid forties, what would you recommend to him/her.
Also bear in mind in this answer he/she has no other income and needs to solely earn his/her  bread and butter in golf course design.

Do what the great actor Laurence Olivier did. Take any job that was paying the right price.  ::)

Actually, you should hire a musician friend as your Architectural Ethics Coach.

Seriously, you get along with people well, Dicky. As time goes on, the good work will come. Every time you get a Taree or Wembly just do the best job you can. That way you'll be ahead of half the industry to start with.

Either that or you'll end up a drunken bum down at your local TAB.

Scott Warren

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Re: Starting Thurs., 12/17, Get To Know Andrew Summerell
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2009, 07:08:55 AM »
Thanks for answering my questions, Andrew. I have a few follow-ups.

Given carte blanche at St Michael's, what would you do to the course?

What are your three favourite Beatles songs?

If you could have been in any massive band of the last 50 years, which band? And which member would you have replaced?

How much work would Penrith GC need to be an Aus Top 50 contender?

You once told me, when I asked how well you thought you could do at designing a golf course, that while you thought you could design some very good golf holes on a nice piece of land, the thing you thought you would struggle with is the routing. When I was playing with Robin Hiseman one day I told him that and he remarked that he found the routing one of the easier things about most courses. What is it about routing a golf course that you think would prove difficult to you?

I know you still play a fair amount of golf on courses in Sydney that are far from architecturally stunning. Do you play those rounds with a different mindset? You have joked to me a few times "just wait until you get home and have to play golf in Sydney again!" How do you approach those rounds, seeing as it seems they are missing one of the major things you love about golf?

Is Cumberland GC underrated in your opinion?

You spent three days at Pine Valley earlier this year. What feature(s) didn't appear to you in the first couple of rounds that you had noticed were great parts of the course by the end of your visit?

Your personal World Top 10?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 07:10:52 AM by Scott Warren »

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