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Mark Saltzman

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The Creek (not The Creek Club), designed by Charles Blair Macdonald in 1923, features several of the 'templates' though less than I am used to seeing. 

4 is Eden
7 is Long
8 is Redan
11 is Biarritz
13 is Cape
15 is Double Plateau
17 is Short

Without a doubt, the most talked about and most photographed hole on the golf course is the unique island Biarritz 11th.  But, in my opinion, the best holes on the golf course are the non-template holes.

The 6th hole transitions the golfer from the upper portion of the property to the lower portion.  Aside from the extremely uphill 18th, the 6th is has the most elevation change of any hole on the golf course and features a fascinating green and surrounds.  I could try to describe it, but pictures will do a much better job than words.


Scorecard Information




Routing




I suspect that the opening quintet of holes are criticized by many as lacking character, playing over a flat portion of the golf course and routed in a back-and-forth manner.

Nonetheless, the first hole, a mid-length par-4 is subtle, is dangerous, and is an excellent opener.  The tee shot is played over a series of top-shot bunkers to a blind driving zone.  Tee shots that are not taken on the bold line to the right risk running down a large slope and into the left rough.  The photo is taken from the right portion of the fairway, just short of a series of cross-bunkers 100 yards short of the green.  The green itself is wonderful, tilting with the land from back-left to front-right.  Misses short/left may collect into the left bunker.




The second is a short par-4 with plenty of width, though the narrow green is best approached from the left side of the fairway. 




Given the limited square footage of the second green, the amount of contour is almost overwhelming.




The third is easily the most forgettable hole on the course.




The 4th hole is the 174 yard Eden, and it is a very good rendition.  The tilt of the green from back-to-front is substantial and Strath is not a place a golfer wants to be (though, better than missing long!)






The 5th is the 4th shortish par-4 of the round, though this hole plays uphill the entire way.  An uninteresting tee shot gives way to an interesting 'sunken' green that lay at a 45-degree angle to the fairway.  I think tree removal would give way to a wonderful skyline green.




After something of a mundane start, the golfer is stunned with one of the great views in golf and one of the best holes on Long Island.  The 6th is a 450 yard par-4 that, despite its length, will play as little more than a driver and a mid-iron as the hole plays straight downhill and the tilt of the fairway should send the ball bounding.




The ideal tee shot will be played down the left side, allowing the golfer to use the ground's contours short of the green.  A feeder slope short-left of the green can be used to access back-right pin positions!






The 7th is Long; something of a forgettable par-5 for its first two thirds (both of the first two shots are blind) that gives way to a nice skyline approach, a severely tilted green, and a phenomenal view from the back of the green.




The 8th is Redan, playing about 185 yards, and is a very good example of the template.  The short-right bunkering is not as fearsome as I've seen elsewhere, but the kicker and slope of the green and firm conditions ensure that the hole functions as intended.






The 9th is Inferno (not sure why) and is another very good non-template hole.  The hole plays well over 400 yards and demands that the golfer take the bold line over fairway bunkers to the narrow portion of the fairway to leave the shorter approach from a preferred angle.  Bail-out right and the approach (with a long-iron) will be completely blind, played over a dune.




The green sits atop a rise (maybe that's why it's called Inferno?) and requires an all-carry approach as a series of bunkers / rough protects the front of the green.




The 10th hole brings the golfer near the Beach House and immediately adjacent to Long Island Sound.  The golfer is asked how much he dare cut-off, and anything bailed-out left risks a blind approach (at best) or running through the fairway into the dune.






The 11th is the famous island Biarritz.  The hole measures 200 yards on the scorecard, but the green is some 80 yards deep.  Normal wind is downwind from the right and despite the added length, I was told that golfers beg for a back-pin.  The 11th is a very fun hole, even if the swale is not as deep as expected, but I wonder how the hole will play with firm conditions and a strong wind (as I'm sure is common so close to the Sound).








The 12th is a simple, short par-4 and offers a brief reprieve from the brutal stretch that is 11-14.






The 13th is Cape, and at 473 yards into the wind, it is a monster.  I was told that over the past several years reeds and the like were removed from the water on the inside of the dogleg.  I have little doubt that this has shifted the Line of Instinct and as a result golfers are taking-on a bolder line than is advisable.




A cleverly placed ridge runs along the left side of the fairway short of the green and allows properly shaped shots to run onto the green.




The 14th is another brute of a par-4.  The Line of Instinct will have golfers playing farther right than there is fairway(!), so one must hope to have a good caddie to steer the golfer in the right direction.  A stream crosses the fairway 270 yards from the tee, requiring longer hitters to hit less than driver.




A fearsome approach played uphill, downwind to a green with a massive false-front.  Any ball landing on the first 1/4 of the green will funnel some 30 yards back down the fairway.  No simple recovery, either.




The 15th is a very fun hole -- a Hog's Back / Double Plateau combination.  The tee shot is played uphill to a very tilted fairway.  A bold tee shot will be played toward the sliver of fairway right of a centreline bunker, leaving a level approach from a level lie.  Bailing left will leave a very difficult pitch...




as fairway grass short of the green will repel shots hit short and the green's contours will more readily accept an approach from the right.




The 16th is the final par-4 on the course, and it plays alongside a centuries old cemetery.  Once again the golfer must fight the Line of Instinct as tee shots on the inside of the dogleg may find fairway bunkering / rough.  Another false-front guards the 16th green.






The 17th is Short, and is not the best example I've seen.  Unlike the Shorts at Fishers Island, National, or Sleepy Hollow, which feature very LARGE greens with wonderful contouring, the Short at The Creek is a small and simple green that is gently bunkered.




If nothing else, the 18th hole will test a golfer's fitness.  The entire drop of the 6th hole is recovered on the very uphill, 450 yard par-5 18th.  A series of bunkers are staggered left and right along the fairway, generally flanking the driving zone and the area 100 yards short of the green.  The arbitrary mowing lines and narrowing of the fairway bother me (this is not done anywhere else on the golf course) and I suspect are a way to help protect par on this short hole.




The green is large and has the most internal contour of any green on the golf course.  Another way to protect par.  An interesting green, though I'm not sure it fits.



Tom_Doak

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Re: The Creek (C.B. Macdonald), Locust Valley, NY - A Photo Tour!!!
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2012, 09:35:19 PM »
Mark:

I was just out at The Creek ten days ago, taking one of my interns around it.  First time I'd been back for a long while.

Impatient sort that I am, I have on more than one occasion gone there and just started straight onto #6.  Those first five holes are okay, but the four par-4's are very close to the same length, and the back-and-forth routing is not appealing.

One thing I did notice this time that I hadn't thought about much was that the first hole is a par-4 with a Redan type green.  I was at Chicago Golf Club two days later and saw the same thing in the eleventh hole there.  I won't go through all the Raynor courses but I suspect many of them have a version of the same hole, which I'd never really included as one of their templates before.  Maybe we'll have to go back and build one at Old Macdonald.

Paul Jones

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Re: The Creek (C.B. Macdonald), Locust Valley, NY - A Photo Tour!!!
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2012, 09:50:11 PM »
Mark,

The pictures look fantastic.  This is a must see for me on my next visit. 

Thanks for sharing.

Paul
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Malcolm Mckinnon

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Re: The Creek (C.B. Macdonald), Locust Valley, NY - A Photo Tour!!!
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2012, 10:53:36 PM »
Thanks Mark!

What camera are you using? I can actually get a sense of the undulations from your pictures, or is it just that I have played here so many times?

A tough property for an architect. Flat on top, flat down by the Sound and about 200 feet of vertical in between where most of the drama resides. I remember more salt marshy reediness at the bottom than now seem present.

I agree that the first green with it's severe right to left cant is a winner and the sixth downhill punchbowl is pure adrenaline with the views out to Long Island Sound.

Also it's a welcoming friendly club to visit with a fun membership. I hear it is a great place to sled after a decent winter snowstorm.




Brian Finn

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Re: The Creek (C.B. Macdonald), Locust Valley, NY - A Photo Tour!!!
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 11:14:16 PM »
Outstanding photos. Thank you for sharing. 

I had the opportunity to play The Creek for the first time this summer, and found it to be one of the most interesting and fun courses I have seen.  Hard to imagine one could ever grow tired of playing this classic. 

I understand the first 5 are mostly not in the class of the many wonderful holes from 6 to 18...but they really are some terrific golf holes, especially for those of us that don't get to play such world class courses routinely.  1, 4, and 5 are particularly good, in my opinion. 

6 is among the best holes I have ever played, and the stretch from 13 to 16 is incredible in its variety and challenge. 

New for '24: Monifieth (Medal & Ashludie), Montrose (1562 & Broomfield), Panmure, Carnoustie (Championship, Burnside, & Buddon), Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop (Red & Black), Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs (South & Bluffs)...

Mark McKeever

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Re: The Creek (C.B. Macdonald), Locust Valley, NY - A Photo Tour!!!
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2012, 10:59:52 AM »
Mark:

I was just out at The Creek ten days ago, taking one of my interns around it.  First time I'd been back for a long while.

Impatient sort that I am, I have on more than one occasion gone there and just started straight onto #6.  Those first five holes are okay, but the four par-4's are very close to the same length, and the back-and-forth routing is not appealing.

One thing I did notice this time that I hadn't thought about much was that the first hole is a par-4 with a Redan type green.  I was at Chicago Golf Club two days later and saw the same thing in the eleventh hole there.  I won't go through all the Raynor courses but I suspect many of them have a version of the same hole, which I'd never really included as one of their templates before.  Maybe we'll have to go back and build one at Old Macdonald.

Tom,

Also in that same light is number 1 at Morris County GC.

mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

PCCraig

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Re: The Creek (C.B. Macdonald), Locust Valley, NY - A Photo Tour!!!
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2012, 11:52:13 AM »
Mark:

I was just out at The Creek ten days ago, taking one of my interns around it.  First time I'd been back for a long while.

Impatient sort that I am, I have on more than one occasion gone there and just started straight onto #6.  Those first five holes are okay, but the four par-4's are very close to the same length, and the back-and-forth routing is not appealing.

One thing I did notice this time that I hadn't thought about much was that the first hole is a par-4 with a Redan type green.  I was at Chicago Golf Club two days later and saw the same thing in the eleventh hole there.  I won't go through all the Raynor courses but I suspect many of them have a version of the same hole, which I'd never really included as one of their templates before.  Maybe we'll have to go back and build one at Old Macdonald.

Tom,

Also in that same light is number 1 at Morris County GC.

mark

As well as the first at Blue Mound CC.
H.P.S.

Carl Nichols

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Re: The Creek (C.B. Macdonald), Locust Valley, NY - A Photo Tour!!!
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2012, 12:11:27 PM »
Mark-
Thanks for this and all of your other photo tours.  Haven't played there, so this is based solely on the pictures, but the contrast between the highs and lows seems pretty remarkable -- the best 12-14 holes look like they could match up with just about any course out there, but the other 4-6 seem quite bland.

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Creek (C.B. Macdonald), Locust Valley, NY - A Photo Tour!!!
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2013, 06:59:18 PM »
Mark:

I was just out at The Creek ten days ago, taking one of my interns around it.  First time I'd been back for a long while.

Impatient sort that I am, I have on more than one occasion gone there and just started straight onto #6.  Those first five holes are okay, but the four par-4's are very close to the same length, and the back-and-forth routing is not appealing.

One thing I did notice this time that I hadn't thought about much was that the first hole is a par-4 with a Redan type green.  I was at Chicago Golf Club two days later and saw the same thing in the eleventh hole there.  I won't go through all the Raynor courses but I suspect many of them have a version of the same hole, which I'd never really included as one of their templates before.  Maybe we'll have to go back and build one at Old Macdonald.

Tom,

Winthrop (hole 12) at Fishers Island also features the Redan type green on a par-4...

Buck Wolter

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Re: The Creek (C.B. Macdonald), Locust Valley, NY - A Photo Tour!!!
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2013, 07:25:27 PM »
From Ran's write-up of St Louis CC.

Fourteenthhole, 415 yards, Dome; The longest two shotter at Saint Louis Country Club plays to a first rate reverse redan green. As part of the recent restoration work, several yards of putting green were recaptured at the front left. Golfers back in the fairway are afforded the pleasure of watching the drama slowly unfold with their approach shot as it takes the front slope and slowly feeds toward the back right of the green.
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Connor Dougherty

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Re: The Creek (C.B. Macdonald), Locust Valley, NY - A Photo Tour!!!
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2013, 12:38:56 AM »
The 6th at Camargo also features a redan like green, and of the redan like par 4's I saw over the summer is by far my favorite.

I'm not as sold by others on the Eden 4th though. It's a fine hole, but I didn't think it stood out against any of the other eden greens. The pushed up front does not exist and missing short really isn't that much of a penalty like it is at so many other Edens. Upon first appearance I actually thought it may have been a Biarritz at first with the trough in the middle filled over time. (I realized that wasn't the case after seeing the 11th

But 6-16 and the 18th are remarkable. From what it sounds like the club is making a commitment to bring back some of the lost green contours as well, surely holes like the Short will once again become world class.
"The website is just one great post away from changing the world of golf architecture.  Make it." --Bart Bradley

Charlie_Bell

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Re: The Creek (C.B. Macdonald), Locust Valley, NY - A Photo Tour!!!
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2013, 01:28:13 AM »
To whoever removed the reeds on the inside of the dogleg on 13:  Please return the 3 balls I left there back in 2003.  Thank you.


Another excellent photo tour, Mark.  It brought back wonderful memories of 17 holes.

Steve Kline

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Re: The Creek (C.B. Macdonald), Locust Valley, NY - A Photo Tour!!!
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2013, 05:40:22 AM »
Connor - I was going to mention the 6th at Camargo too. That green is pretty severely sloped from back right to front left. When the green speeds are up you must be below the hole to the left. Except being short left of the green means you will be well below the green surface. And long right is really bad.

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