[Carl Rogers]

I am sure it is needed to keep the bunker sand from washing away.... but, I think it is too straight lined, angular and too artificial and detracts.  The stonework is too regularly sized.  It could use some smoother curves and a touch of whimsey.

What do you think?

[Bill_McBride]

It's there to keep the fairway from eroding into the surf, not just the bunker sand.  There is a lot of artificial rock (i.e. concrete) construction back by the tee and on up by the green.  I think the utilitarian construction is because it's structural rather than aesthetic.

[PCCraig]

As bill says above...it's needed. If they never built it half the 18th fairway would be in the water by now. It's ugly but needed I suppose.

[Adam Clayman]

Pete Dye utilizes straight lines to great affect. How about Raynor, Langford and Moreau? Even Ross.

Carl, If your opinion is from viewing the hole on Television, I can understand why you might think the criticism is valid. On the ground, not one bit of those negatives are noticeable.  Ergo, not a negative.

The stewardship of the coastline was one of the great things the Japanese owners, back before the current group, took very seriously. History should record that as highly commendable. Then again, it could have been a result of Mr. Davis' neglect?  

[Mac Plumart]

Personally, I think that wall and those waves crashing into it look very cool!

I don't see it as a negative at all.

[Jordan Wall]

I think your being far too picky, Carl.

[Andrew Summerell]

It doesn't detract as much as all the biuldings down the right side.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Pic of #18 taken today by a guy on a different board:



And a nice view of #7 green:



And for you snow-bound folks...hula hoop gal who made the morning coverage on the Golf Channel:

[Patrick_Mucci]

Carl,

I think the CCC dictated every aspect of that wall.

Thus, there may not have been any options.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Those pictures got scrunched...here are the links for better views:

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1640/18thholepebble.jpg

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/9198/7thgreenpebble.jpg

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2980/hulagirlbillmurray6thte.jpg

[Ryan Farrow]

Carl,

It bugs me too, so do the walls at Cypress Point. With that said, I haven't seen any of these holes in person and I'm sure 99% of the people out there won't even notice. Most humans are pretty immune to our efforts of conquering nature.

I also haven't seen any examples of Sea Shore stabilization that look natural. I don't think these things are the priorities of most engineers and I am sure it is not easy. For one, I would rather see a spray on concrete (think faux rock at Disney) instead of the rock walls at both courses. But again, I'm not an engineer and this is way out of my league.

[Eric Johnson]

For one, I would rather see a spray on concrete (think faux rock at Disney) instead of the rock walls at both courses. But again, I'm not an engineer and this is way out of my league.

There is faux rock (raux?) along the 18th that matches up well with the existing rock (obviously)......

[Tim Bert]

Ryan

When you walk to the tee of the 16th at Cypress Point Club, I assure you that the retaining wall is the last thng you will notice no matter how much photos may have bugged you.  The view, the sounds, and the experience are sensory overload.  

The wall is a bit more noticeable in my opinion at Pebble.   As Jordan mentioned these are nit-picks and don't impact the architecture (other than to keep it around a little longer!)
  

[Jeff Taylor]

It's unfortunate but necessary. I am sure that when a more attractive solution presents itself, it will be implemented.

[Kevin Pallier]

Does one get relief when their ball is hard up against it ?

[Bob_Huntley]

"Carl,

It bugs me too, so do the walls at Cypress Point. With that said, I haven't seen any of these holes in person and I'm sure 99% of the people out there won't even notice. Most humans are pretty immune to our efforts of conquering nature.

I also haven't seen any examples of Sea Shore stabilization that look natural. I don't think these things are the priorities of most engineers and I am sure it is not easy. For one, I would rather see a spray on concrete (think faux rock at Disney) instead of the rock walls at both courses. But again, I'm not an engineer and this is way out of my league. "


Ryan,

Until you see them whilst playing, I think it best not to take to determinate position on their aesthetics. I was out there this afternoon and can assure you they are as superb a copy of what went before, and paid out of member's pockets and not some stimulus package.

Bob

 
 
 

[Brett_Morrissy]

If memory serves me correctly, the 2nd at North Berwick has a wooden pylon/piers stablisation or protection wall with rusty old ladders to climb down to play your ball off the Beach when you hit it long right - which I was most fortunate enough to do...

I think the wooden erosion protection appeals much more and does not appear as prominent as the stone wall on 18. (Phil's approach landed on the 45 degree angle of the wall and ricocheted under the lip poached - an unexpected result I am sure)

Kelly Slater interviewed on the coverage today said he thought he seen some waves that were 50-60 feet - so there is some serious protection required for the seaside holes.

[Ryan Farrow]

Brett, the Pacific is ferocious I'm not sure wood will stand up too long.



Bob, my only argument is everything else looks so great, why can't the wall? I'm just interested to find out if there is a better way to construct the walls at CPC. Something that could match the natural rock face that surrounds the entire 16th hole. Its one of the most picturesque holes in the world, is it too much to ask for perfection?

[Jud_T]

Ryan,

I agree with you aesthetically.  I'm pretty sure it would have been possible to build something structurally sound that looked better, but it may have been prohibitive from a cost and or time perspective....

[Carl Rogers]

I might be too picky, but that bit of golf real estate and that edge on the ocean is as important as any for Golf Architecture on the planet. 

That is what prompted this thread.

[Mike_Young]

If I ever play golf from a blimp out over the bay...I might notice it...

[Tim Nugent]

If memory serves, I believe that when they reconstructed the Seawall on #18 a lot of faux rock retaining wall was used.  I was dissapointed that they didn't continue it up to the bunker,  as I personally don't care for the straight edge (as, yes I did notice it from the tee) although I deplore the fairway bunkers even more.

However, I believe the Seawall work was undetaken as a Restoration project, as opposed to a redesign (and I wouldn't be surprised if their hands were tied by some CCC - CA Coastal Commision - regs as to what they could do).  In that light, you have to agree that they did a wonderful job replicating what was there with modern technolgy.

This is a good example of what Architects face when they get nto a situation where what is already there might be better if redesigned rather than just restored.  While some, it seems, want things to be black or white, sometimes things are a bit more grey.

[Bill Rocco]

Has anyone worked with faux rocks for erosion protection? How long do they last?  Limitations compared to regular rocks?

[Robert Thompson]

I wrote about this in a story in T+L Golf a few years back -- the rock isn't really rock -- it an engineered geotechnical construction designed to deal with the waves crashing on the shore. It was quite an engineering accomplishment, but the concern was the fairway would slip into the ocean after a bad storm -- if I recall, some of that occured a few years back.

[Jordan Wall]

I don't think either wall is bad. 

Ryan Farrow, 16 at Cypress is perfection.

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