Sebonack's Bold Move to Trinity Status

[Matt_Ward]

Like most golf architectural observers I have followed quite closely the development of Sebonack on the east end of Long Island for quite some time.

When the facility had its grand opening about a month ago I had the opportunity to personally walk the course with one of the professionals -- Mike Finney. Clearly, the totality of the property cannot be fully apprecated simply from being in or around the clubhouse area. I also learned a good deal about the course with the absence in having to golf one's ball around the layout.

Yesterday I had the opportunity to play the course and before I go forward with comments I have to say that creating such a stellar layout cannot happen without the vision of its founder -- Michael Pascucci.

For those who may not realize the east end of the Island is loaded with a wide range of "successful" people and a number of them are fully prepared (dare I say even eager) to take issue with anyone who as much as might move a leaf or blade of grass in the area. Some of the protectionst impulse is clearly needed -- however -- some of it can mean the calling forward of a battery of law firms and other groups for the purpose of maintaining the status quo as they see fit.

Michael Pascucci had a dream to create something very special on the east end and the determination and passion he possesses have brought forward what one sees today at Sebonack. No doubt his canny sense in linking together the Jack Nicklaus and Tom Doak and their very talented internal teams is of major importance -- no less skillfully working through each of their unique personalities / egos -- but at the end of the day the success of what one sees today at Sebonack starts with the founder himself.

My day at Sebonack was rather interesting in that I encountered a very stiff east wind -- in the 10-20 vicinity. Temps were in the high 60's and even 70 during the later parts of the afternoon. However, the course was just coming through a major aeration process. As a result the overall speed of the fairways and greens were not at optimum levels -- that took place during the inaugural club championship which, I believe, took place earlier in September and right after Labor Day.

As an FYI -- Sebonack is listed at 7,200 yards from the tips (Black Tees) and plays to a par of 72. The blue tees play from 6,717 yds and the white offer a yardage of 6,164.

The course is not officially rated yet -- but from what I was told that will change shortly when officials from the MGA arrive before this season ends.

I do apologize to those who have insisted that I should use a camera with my course descriptions. I have just purchased one and will be using it shortly but unfortunately did not have with me when I went to Sebonack. I am sure photos of the different holes will appear via others.

1st hole -- 355 yds (par-4)

Very interesting starting hole. The 1st introduces you to the course but in so many ways is "hidden" from the totality of what you find at Sebonack. The 1st tee sits behind the spacious practice area and abuts the property with NGLA.

As I stood on the back tee I had a bit of difficulty in discerning the proper play. Fortunately for me Mike Finney and club member David Miller pointed out what the hole offered.

I selected driver and Mike indicated that I needed to keep my tee shot to the right of a bunker that guards the left side -- roughly 280 yards from the tee -- the space between the left and right bunkers on the hole is no more than 28 yards. Players can lay-back if they choose but the approach becomes a bit longer.

If someone decides to bang with the driver and can "fit" the ball through the opening you can receive a bit of an assist from the ground dimensions that have been provided. Strong players can come very close to the green and my tee shot finished no more than five paces from the green.

But now -- here's what develops -- the green is neatly contoured. You have different sections that make up their own little "green" if you will. Fortunately, for me the pin was cut in the far rear and I decided to play a bump and run shot.

The toughest pin location, according to Finney and one I can understand, is a slight central rise which features falloffs to several different locations. Landing a ball on this with a flop shot would take a Tiger-like play. Even if you play a bump and run shot the overall speed of the greens are so keen that you would need to judge such a shot with tremendous judgement / speed in order to finish in the correct spot.

The 1st at Sebonack is well thought out and there is an alternate green (19th hole) located to the immediate right of the hole.

2nd hole / 454 yds (par-4)

When I first walked this hole I was thinking on the ride from Jersey to the course how grand it would be to play this hole. The feeling only intensified as I walked off the first green.

The back tee box on #2 is very close to the 1st green -- just a short walk in fact. The 2nd hole generally plays into the prevailing south headwind. This day the wind was blowing hard from the east (left-to-right). Like the 1st it's critical to have a very clear understanding on what it is you need to do for your tee shot. The 2nd swings a bit to the right and you can see the green in the distance.

The hole includes a number of interesting bunkers that need to be avoided at all costs. There is a reverse "C" bunker complex on the far left side roughly 310 yards from the tips. It includes more than just sand as you have a range of native grasses that give the bunkers a very sinister edge and with it a striking appeal of naturalness. There is also a bunker complex to the far right which abuts the 18th hole which comes up the other way and is alongside the 2nd.

The key bunker is one perfectly placed in the right center of the fairway -- roughly 275 yards to carry from the tips. Depending upon the wind situation -- the player faces a range of options. Compounding my dilemma was the force of the wind -- hard from the left.

My tee shot faded right and I was quite fortunate to find a tiny strip of fairway grass between the bunkers on the far right side -- leaving me no more than 140 yards to the hole.

Mike indicated to me that when the wind blows in at typical velocity of 10-15 mph the stronger players can hit driver and avoid the bunker in question. Of course -- the 2nd shot becomes much longer as a result. Playing downwind the hole becomes even more taxing because you need to execute with a total sense of where the ball will finish and what bunkers to be avoided.

Even after you reach the fairway -- no small assumption -- the shot to the green is simply breathtaking. The green sits above the fairway and has more movement than a stormy day on the Atlantic. The common tendency for players is to bail to the left and avoid the trouble (bunker and high grass) that closes in from the right. That is a big mistake and one the Nicklaus / Doak partnership has cleverly baited the player in taking.

The left side is severely sloped and includes a major false front to nearly the entire putting surface. The
s-l-i-g-h-t-e-s-t bit short can result in a ball coming back a number of yards. If you miss to the left you also must handle a green that falls away from that side.

If the pin is placed to the far left and you miss on that side you may need to consider if you are named the following ...

Houdini
Seve
Merlin

Short of those three names you will not up and down the ball from that side.

The green includes much more than the left side aspect. The pin was cut in the far right hand side on my visit and I had roughly 140 yds left to the target. The caddie advised me in the strongest terms to be sure to get the ball to the target and not come up short or right -- there is a superb bunker on that side that is very deep to be avoided. Fortunately for me I was able to get the ball deep enough and finished roughly 20 feet away from the hole.

The 2nd also includes a series of rear bunkers and heaven help anyone who hits it too boldly on their approach. The bunker shot must then be played back to a green that falls away. To up and down from that position simply review the three (3) names of the people I listed above.

The 2nd hole is handicapped as the #1 hole at Sebonack but its sheer greatness and visual appeal escapes all of the traditional superlative words one can mention. Anyone who plays the course will have the memory of this hole burned into your brain.

Thank heavens the 2nd is located where it is because if were the starting hole it would be a bit much given the requirements previously mentioned. Given its existing location it plays the perfect role as counter puncher to what the beguiling 1st offers.

In simple terms -- if you should make the fortunate birdie at #1 be more than prepared to give back at the 2nd.

Time is tight for me now to write further -- more to follow and I do apologize to all in not having pictures to accompany the narrative.
 

[Matt_Ward]

Forgive me for the typo on the course's name ...

Sebonack

[George Pazin]

Thanks, I look forward to reading more.

[Noel Freeman]

Matt-

You must really be hitting the ball long these days because neither Ran, myself or Tom Doak even sniffed an approach in the 140 yard range on the 2nd.  I had to hit a HOWITZER high approach to hold the 2nd green but what I found brilliant about the hole and what I talked with Tom about is the knob that appears to be right near the green from the right but is indeed 40 yards short.  If you try any kind of ground game shot this knob can be quite devious and given the shot demands of a high dropping approach to that green, good luck.

What did you think of the 3rd green?

[Matt_Ward]

Noel:

Keep in mind that my fade tee shot at #2 was helped somewhat by the wind I mentioned -- although more pushing the ball to the right then actually assisting it forward.

I'll share comments on #3 and the remaining holes a bit later today.

I do concur with you that when played into the prevailing headwind the length of the hole certainly becomes more of an issue.

P.S. You are correct to add the element of the knob you mentioned and the role it plays.

[Tom Dunne]

I would love another crack at #2. My drive found the center fairway bunker and my approach came up just short, at which point the false front absolutely killed me. I felt a bit vindicated at the end of the day when, as I came up 18, I saw superintendent Garret Bodington bedeviled by the exact same shot. A golfer's schadenfreude, I guess you could say. Great hole, great course.

[SPDB]

what is "trinity status"?

[Geoffrey Childs]

what is "trinity status"?

My guess

NGLA
Shinnecock Hills
Sebonack

It's worthy of the neighborhood.

[ed_getka]

Matt,
   Great start, looking forward to hearing more. One thing I don't get though is where can you land the ball besides on the green on #2? Also, it sounds like you are saying pitching up from the left has the green falling away from you and if you go long the green is falling away from you. If you could clarify I would be interested to know what is going on with that green internally. Isn't #2 green set into sort of an amphitheatre?

[Matt_Ward]

Ed G:

Yes, I guess one could say the 2nd is a bit of an amphitheatre although I will leave that to a few more insightful people to define it more accurately than that if need be.

There is sufficient room to land one's approach but you need to be utterly precise because as I and others have mentioned -- the least bit short is no bargain. Ditto going too long.

The 2nd at Sebonack, IMHO, will join the likes of Thom's Elbow -- the famed 14th at Shinnecock Hills -- as one of the premier long par-4 holes you can play in America. combination of multiple options plus the eye-catching scenery makes for a tour de force combo there.

*****

Noel, asked me previously about the 3rd green and I have to say that one of the more unique aspects of Sebonack is its first rate routing -- you never get the same look -- the same type of shot -- the patterns simply keep changing as does the wind velocity and direction.

3rd hole / 442 yds (par-4)

The 3rd plays in the opposite direction of #2 and as a result the holes will not have the same type of wind. In my case the 3rd played with a hard right-to-left wind.

The tip tee box for #3 is immediately to the right and just a few steps backward. The fairway slides from right-to-left and it pays for the golfer to hit the shot with the fairway bend in mind.

To Nicklaus / Doak's credit there are several fairway bunkers that are skillfully placed to thrwart the player who wants to go boldly down that side. I believe the first requires a carry of 260 yards and the second is likely closer to 290 or thereabouts. Forgive me if the yardage is wrong but I do remember the info given to me by my caddie.

When you stand on the elevated 3rd tee you need to pay particular attention to where these bunkers are located. They are sufficiently deep and will not permit you -- unless one plays a Herculean recovery -- to reach the putting surface.

I hit a solid tee shot but the wind pushed my tee ball a bit too much to the left and I caught the upper part of the first bunker on the left and slide back into the bunker. My escape was with a 7-iron simply to get out of the location I placed myself.

If one's tee ball does avoid the bunkers and you play a carefully stroke draw you can runout a good bit of distance and have anywhere from a mid to short iron -- depending upon the strength of the player and the wind dimension that day.

The green is on the same par with the 2nd -- it sits high above the fairway and there is a MASSIVE greenside bunker that tugs tight to the green like a kid hugging their mother's apron on their first day at school. Anything that ventures near it without a proper hit will be making a quick visit.

The green does have a bit of room for run-on shots to the immediate far right. The putting surface is also neatly crafted. There is an abrupt rise in the rear and should you happen to hit your approach too firmly you can then experience the sheer terror in trying to come back to the putting surface from a very elevated position -- unless skillfully played the likelihood is that you will run past the pin.

The 3rd is a great follow-up to #2 because although they exist side-by-side they are uniquely different and compelling from a design perspective.

4th hole / 235 yds (Par-3)

This hole generally will encounter the south headwind you faced at #2. The day I played the easterly wind was really pushing shots from left-to-right and was slightly into our faces.

What is interesting about #4 is that you need to walk through or around the 10th tee area to access the 4th teeing areas. The teeing areas are quite large here and the placement of the tees can vary immensely.

I hit 2-iron in order to reach the back left position. The green sits below an elevated tee but when the wind is howling it takes a solid strike to reach the target.

There's plenty of room for a run-up if the player opts in that direction.

I liked the green because while there is contour -- the overall severity of the target is not over-the-top given the length of shots normally played.

Frankly, at Sebonack you need to get off to a quick and good start. The 1st does give you a better opportunity at birdie but it's not assured by any doubt. the next three holes are quite demanding and it is very easy to be deep in the hole before you step on the 5th tee box.

One of the more unique holes follows the par-3 4th -- the artfully created short 345-yard par-4 5th.

[ed_getka]

Matt,
   One of the cool things about #3 is how golfers will be terrified of the left fronting bunker and will bail out right to what probably seems like a straightforward bump and run, but that shot from over there has some pretty tricky contours to get through to get near the hole.
   The first 4 holes get you off to a rousing start at Sebonack. You don't want to have to find your game out on the course, that's for sure.
   Keep it coming. Nice job so far. A little more detail on what the 4th green contours do and how the bunkering sets the strategy up would be nice for those who haven't seen it.

[Matt_Ward]

Ed:

You are 100% when you mention if people bail out right on the 3rd -- the recovery situation there is far from automatic and is even more demanding in a number of ways than playing from the bunker in front of the green.

I found the 4th green to be entirely appropriate for the length of shot played there and the prevailing headwind you will usually encounter. There are falloffs to the sides and the person who simply misses the green by just a little might receive more roll away from the target.

The 4th is not a great hole for a long par-3 but it certainly will not give away anything that is not earned.

*****

5th hole / 345 yds (par-4)

One of the more interesting aspects in playing Sebonack is the importance in understanding playing angles. Nicklaus / Doak have mandated a preferred place to play from when the pin is set accordingly on many of the holes at Sebonack.

None more so than the short 345-yd 5th.

As you walk off the 4th you proceed for a very short walk to the elevated and somewhat setback black tees here. The hole descends and you see all the obstacles that Nicklaus / Doak have created.

The key in playing the hole rests with a center-placed bunker. It is well-placed and effects the manner by which the hole is played. From the tips the carry is roughly 270 yards and for strong players the carry is not that demanding -- provided the wind is not blowing in your face - as it was when I played the hole.

Facing a headwind of roughly 15-20 mph makes the hole a bit more daunting. My tee shot sailed just to the right of the center-placed bunker and I had no more than 60 yards left to the hole.

As I said at the outset the key to playing the hole rests when you see where the pin is located when standing on the tee. If the pin is set right you need to be left of the center fairway bunker -- the reverse when the pin is set left. Failure to do that only accentuates the demands on the short pitch you need to play.

There is also a frontal right bunker that guards that percentage of the green like a junkyard dog protecting his territory. The green is slightly above the botton of the fairway and runs on a diaginal from lower left to upper right --there is also a slight falloff to the rear.

Although listed as the 17 handicap hole the 5th is a solid change of pace hole where the player may believe an opportunity to recover lost strokes from the last three holes is a certain thing. Such a thought process is only valid with the execution to back it up.

6th hole / 418 yds (par-4)

Interesting hole because you escape the blowing wind and settle into a teeing area that is protected by trees that encircle the entire box.

The hole plays uphill and moves slightly to the right. There is a fairway bunker on that side -- a carry of roughly 260 is needed and if you want the ideal angle into the hole that is the side to play from when hitting.

The fairway ground moves from left-to-right so any fade / slice can certainly take you further in that direction if you are not careful.

The green is another well done product. The contours run throughout the putting surface and if the pin is cut towards the front you'll likely encounter a very demanding downhill putt.

In all the holes at Sebonack the 6th is one of the most underrated in my mind.

7th hole / 475 yds (par-4)

Although the 7th is indeed demanding I don't see the compelling architectural feelings as the preceding others have demonstrated.

The tip tee is alongside the 6th green and you again play from a slightly elevated teeing area and proceed downhill to a landing area that is wide enough but not that wide as to a reckless play.

There are fairway bunkers on the hole but frankly the totality of what is present at the 7th rests with the sheer length of the hole -- I guess part of opinion -- rests that the hole played into a very strong wind and required a low iron to get near the green.

The putting surface is protected to the immediate left by a well-placed bunker. The putting surface -- should you land in that bunker -- tends to run away from that side so getting up'n down is nowhere near an automatic item.

A tough hole because of the distance -- just not in the samne league with the likes of such stellar long par-4 like the 2nd and 3rd.

8th hole / 189 yds (par-3)

You see the 8th when you drive into the facility. Sad to say the hole is nothing more than a short hole over a water hazard. In sum -- been there / done that. No doubt there are a wide variety of tee pads and the shot to a deep left position or one in the immediate front is no where near a sure thing but the totality of what I was expecting from Nicklaus / Doak doesn't hit the same kind of stride as you see from the earlier holes.

For me the 7th and 8th represent good holes no doubt -- they are not just as compelling as what has come before and what you are about to experience after them.

9th hole / 549 yds (par-5)

You cross the entrance road to get to the final hole on the outward half. The hole climbs uphill all the way to the green and Nicklaus / Doak have returned to their earlier stride here.

The hole features several fairway bunkers and the best position is to deal with the one on the left hand side. It takes a good poke to carry it and most won't -- but if you can play towards that side the rest of the hole does open up for your second shot.

One of the interesting things about the hole is the ground movement. If you happen to hit the slightest of fades / slices the ball will move away from the optimum landing area and you can then face a somewhat blind 2nd shot up the hill.

The day I played the hole it played downwind and I was able to have my tee shot finish just in front of a second fairway bunker further up and the hill and have no more than 200 yards into the hole.

The thing about the 9th that makes it so compelling is that even with a big tee shot -- the hole WILL NOT surrender. The green is well defended and the day I played the pin was very accessible towards the front center. If the pin is cut to the far right the landing area is no quite small and a frontal bunker on that side does its job quite well.

In sum - the front nine is well done -- the overall land and the complexity / sophistication of the routing are well done and clearly first rate. What's amazing is that as good as the front is the back nine closes the day in even grander fashion.

[Mike_Cirba]

Matt,

Thanks for sharing your detailed analysis.   I personally appreciate your efforts to point out things you feel are not up to par, while also lauding what seems to be a grand course by providing specifics about each hole.

Too often around here we tend to see things in all black and white, particularly as relates to glowing, flawless plaudits directed at the creations of some of our favorites.  I think ultimately that stifles conversation and discussion, and ironically does a disservice to the architects involved.

While I don't always agree with you, I do appreciate your forthrightness in expressing your opinions.  

Also, it seems you both played Ballyneal and Sebonack within the past month.   You're a very lucky guy.

[ed_getka]

Matt,
   In the interest of full disclosure #8 cannot be blamed on Doak/Nicklaus. In case you missed it on a previous Sebonack thread, Mr. Pascucci insisted on a forced water carry par 3, and thus #8 is the result.
   To echo Mike's comments, I am enjoying your analysis. This is the Matt of old that I read when I first came to this site.

[Alex_Wyatt]

Matt, wow!

The course is so far below its neighbors that I can't imagine the title of your piece.  I find it almost difficult to type a coherent response.

I would just say that I didnt' think there was one world class hole on the golf course.  Not a single one. Plenty of world class views and world class bunkers, but not one fully realized, sensible, coherent golf hole.

[Voytek Wilczak]

Matt, wow!

The course is so far below its neighbors that I can't imagine the title of your piece.  I find it almost difficult to type a coherent response.

I would just say that I didnt' think there was one world class hole on the golf course.  Not a single one. Plenty of world class views and world class bunkers, but not one fully realized, sensible, coherent golf hole.

Surely you jest.

[A.G._Crockett]

Matt,
This is excellent stuff; thank you for being so detailed.  I'm looking forward to reading the rest.

I'd kill for pictures to go with what your text.

[ed_getka]

Alex,
   Have you played the course? I haven't, but in walking it I am sure #11 is an outstanding golf hole (has nothing to do with the views, which granted aren't bad). What keeps #11 from being a world class hole in your opinion?

[Alex_Wyatt]

Yes I have. Twice.  It's the Emperor's new clothes.  And 11 is the best hole. A 7 or 8 out of 10. But a hole worthy of mention in context? Not a chance.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Matt, I am sorry I missed you. We were a few days apart. I too share many of your thoughts about the course and the commitment it took for such a course to be built. I do depart about the second green. I think it is far too small for such a long difficult hole. The second shot would be anywhere from a fairway wood to a mid iron for most good players. I doubt few but Tiger Woods that is would play the second shot from 140 on a normal day. I did not measure it per say, but the non false front part seemed to be about 30 wide and 12 to 15 deep. It is a very hard hole period but especially so when played into the prevailing wind. I do not think that is a star green on an otherwise great great course.

[T_MacWood]

Matt
How does Sebonack compare with Friars Head?

[Matt_Ward]

Alex:

Sebonack is "far below" -- really ?

Before I respond -- I need to know in what order you would rate the best courses on Long Island ?

Please don't have me fall off the chair laughing if you remotely believe any of the following courses listed below is beyond Sebonack:

*Maidstone
*Atlantic
*The Bridge
*Easthampton
(That's just east end layouts)

If you say Sebonack is as bad as you claim -- please start with a listing of your best courses and I can respond with my comments and any other questions that come to mind.

For full disclosure purposes can you please state if you happen to be a member of any of the east end clubs ?

Thanks ...

Ed G:

Partner, I have to say this -- the final design results can't be so easily piegonholed to just the owner alone. The design duo have their names attached to it whether or not they thought the final version of #8 is really the best that could be created.

No doubt Michael P had the final word on what happened throughout the site but the architectural team doesn't simpyl get a free pass.

One other note -- I am not saying that the 8th is a bad
hole -- it's just not at the same level as what you see at Sebonack.

Mike C:

There are a few great clubs in the USA that are not 100% bulletproof and still maintan their lofty perch atop the pecking order.

Simply check out the inner holes at PB -- or the finishing hole at CP -- or the rather tame putting surfaces for the most part at BB. Few courses have it "all" and when one really examines the very top tier layouts it's likely that somewhere along the line a few compromises were made -- either by the architect himself to use the better pieces of a given property or through a collaborative process with the owner that simply mandated a certain course of action.

I don't dislike the 7th and 8th holes at Sebonack -- it just that they fail to elicit the same type of reaction that others did when I played there.

Tiger B:

I hear what you say about the 2nd green. No doubt the target is quite demanding and I didn't play the hole into a major headwind -- the wind, as I mentioned previously, came hard from the east (crosswind from left-to-right) -- I also lucked out in that the ball actually finished in a strip of fairway between two massive bunkers on the right side.

Unfortunately, we part ways on what is considered appropriate. I believe there needs to be demanding long par-4's that will push players to hit longer approaches. Even the strong players must pay attention to the wrap-around bunker on the left side that closes in at 310 yards and, of course, the delicious (shall I call it demonlike) center-placed bunker that is IMHO, a grand element on the overall hole.

You ask about the green and I have to say that it will call upon all the skills any player can muster in regards to the contours there. I will say this -- people can make a good score provided they execute to a high level. No doubt the level needed is a high one but it's far from impossible as I can name a number of holes I have personally played that offer even less opportunity for success than the 2nd provides.

*****

Onto the back nine now ...

As you walk from the 9th green to the 10th tee you once again can see the Great Peconic in all its majesty. Fortunately for me the clouds broke apart as we walked up the 9th hole and the view from the 10th tee as you see the broad expanse of the 18th, 2nd and 3rd fairways is glorious stuff indeed.

10th hole / 383 yds (par-4)

The 10th is listed at 383 yards but I was told actually plays just under 370 yards. There is tip tee that is just now being completed and will bring the length to just under 400 yards.

The striking aspect of the 10th is the up and down nature of the land itself. Reminiscent of the holes you play across the pond the 10th also provides a good bit of strategic elements that go beyond the mere "look" it provides.

There is a center-placed bunker -- carry of 210 yards from the existing tip tee -- and it's more directional than anything else. The goal is to slide your tee shot with a fade and try to finish on the right hand side of the fairway for the easier approach.

What happens if you go too far left ?

The fairway plunges downward and simply accentuates the effects of a shot that may draw or worse yet hook wildly.

Complicating matters are two fairway bunkers on the right. They are deep and to be avoided at all costs. It seems the added length was Jack's idea because stronger players can bomb tee shots down the right and get near the hole when a prevailing headwind is not blowing.

The green is slightly above the fairway and opens up more from the right hand side. The far left features a deeeeep frontal bunker and when the pin is pushed tight next to it -- any play then from the left side will need to feature a very
h-i-g-h stopping approach -- there is little space short or the left which plunges away from the green.

The 10th is another example of a hole that isn't long and the player may believe a quick / easy birdie is there to be taken --but only if the execution is present.

11th hole / 466 yds (par-4)

I would not place the 11th as an equal to the 2nd or 3rd hole -- but it is clearly one of the best holes on the course. You walk off the 10th green and head through a pathway pass the 16th green and through the 17th tee before getting to the 11th. The hole features a very wide fairway that rises before turning slightly left and then plummeting left and downward to the greensite.

The wind when I played the hole was hard from the left (east). My tee shot split the fairway and I had roughly 165 yards to the hole. Keep in mind the overall pacing of the fairways was somewhat slow because of recent aeration. If you happen to hit your tee shot too strong and just a bit left you can reach high native grasses and a bunker area that closes in from that side the further you go. It is one of the unique features of the hole.

As you walk to the top of the hill you get a birdeye view of the coastline as the Peconic splashes water up on the town below. Someone indicated to me the town in view is not Southampton and my memory for its name escapes me now as I write this. It is a gorgeous site because just off in the distance behind the 11th green is the short 12th which I will examine shortly.

The green runs on a diaginal from lower left to upper right -- there is also a bunker that protects the right side and it will catch just about anything -- including a run shot that is a bit overcooked and continues to slide into its gaping jaws.

The green also has a slight elevated rise -- about one foot or so -- in front. I hit a 9-iron and struck it quite well and was hoping for it to land and then jump up and towards the middle of the green. It hit in that "rise" and simply died right there leaving me a very demanding left-to-right putt from roughly 45 feet. Three putts later I was walking to the 12th tee.

I liked the 11th because as a long par-4 it comes at a good point in the round -- withing a solid mixture of holes and settings that precede it and come right after.

One other note on the 11th -- this is one hole I would love to play again when the fairway is really firm because then the elements I mentioned would only increase in the role they were meant to play.

Onto the short par-3 12th ...

 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Matt
How does Sebonack compare with Friars Head?

Tom,

I don't know that you can compare them.

I think they're unique, in their respective sites and designs.

One of the issues I raised with respect to Sebonack was the siting of the parking lot and cottages.  I think that decision may have limited the final product.

Friar's Head has a continuity within the framework of the design that is easily discernable.  Sebonack, by its origin, has a split personality that will forever raise the question of:   who did what ?  And, is it the best that could have been done ?

I think Sebonack's genesis will always raise the question, "would the holes and features been better, worse or the same had only one voice spoken ?

Friar's Head is a wonderful golf course.
But, don't forget that some fine tuning took place between opening day and today.

I suspect that Sebonack will go through the same fine tuning process over time.  The question is, will there be unanimity in the design decisions and who will do the fine tuning ?

I don't believe that the Doak-Nicklaus team functions in the same manner as the team of Coore-Crenshaw, and that distinction might produce different results on an ongoing basis.

I'd be surprised if anyone didn't enjoy Sebonack, provided that they played from tees commensurate with their ability.

[Mike_Sweeney]

One of the issues I raised with respect to Sebonack was the siting of the parking lot and cottages.  I think that decision may have limited the final product.

Patrick,

I have only seen the cottages and golf course through the hedges at National, and have only been on the property back when it was Bayberry. It is an interesting model that Michael P has created. If you don't want the hassels and expense of having a second home (with a water view) in The Hamptons, but you want to play golf and hang out in The Hamptons for two weeks and a couple of weekends a year, it actually starts to make sense if you look at housing prices, especially water view.

I know this sounds insane to people, but from the outside, the cottages look very nice and roomy, and if you go to www.hreo.com and type in waterview in the search, Sebonack looks cheap!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike,

I can't disagree with the basic concept you outline, however, some of the cottages don't have water views at the front or back.  Some of the views are of the other cottages, the parking lot or range.

But, let's assume that that's what you want.

What happens to the views when the sun sets ?

What good are the views from the cottages when you're out playing golf during the day ?

And, when the views are at the golf course's expense that has to be a negative.

If one's to judge a golf course, opportunity lost must be considered.  At least that's what Tommy Naccarato told me about Sandpines and Gib Papazian told me about Spanish Bay

You can't view the golf course in a vacuum.

And, as good as it might be in its present form, perhaps it could have been better to far superior had the prime, elevated land been used for something other than an ashphalt bed.

While your point about the cottages makes some sense, the parking lot's location still leaves me wondering.  One would think that the parking lot could be viewed in the context of a step-child, or an off Broadway production.

I like the golf course, but, I'm puzzled by some of the non-golf course related structures..