[Paul_Turner]

Blimey, no one is forcing anyone to read it!  

At least it has some relevance to GCA and we know George (and Ran) don't mind.

[TEPaul]

"Blimey, no one is forcing anyone to read it!"

Paul:

You're dead right about that. How about this--let's you and me just discuss this Crump suicide thing and the details of the creation of PVGC between Crump and Colt and the others on either the IM or probably better yet by email. If Golfclubatlasers aren't interesting in this stuff to the extent they appear not to be to just stop reading it or they just don't want this stuff on this website lets do it by email. I can't talk to Tom MacWood about this anymore but I can to you.

How about it? Shall we go to email?  

[Lou_Duran]

Wow!  Ms. Campbell can lurk on my site 24/7.  Taking potshots and all, I've been particularly naughty here lately!

[ForkaB]

Dick D.

Just to let you know that at least somebody is reading your posts!  Great stuff, Officer Daley (ret.)!

[RJ_Daley]

  I'm afraid to ask what the (ret.) really means...perhaps my school IEP

I couldn't solve this case with Crumps last note in one hand and TEPaul's flask filled in the other...

[George Pazin]

I'd prefer the Crump v Colt debate be carried out in public - I find it quite fascinating. Anyone who doesn't is free to ignore it.

Dick -

I've tried everything imaginable, but the good news is that twice in the last 5 days Jason has slept through the night, so maybe I'll be less sleep deprived shortly. I've actually kept track of how many mornings I've awakened refreshed in the last year plus - since I injured my knee, then had surgery, then added to the family - and I'm now up to a grand total of 5.

And I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world.

[Paul_Turner]

Sure, Tom, no problem.

Although George does want it to remain here.

Does anyone feel this is all in bad taste, eventhough it's almost a century ago?

[TEPaul]

RJ:

I'm sorry about hijacking this thread with all this garbage about Poor George's death and the creation of PVGC. I won't do it any more on this thread then.

Back to the topic of this thread it is for me:

"Re; Is it really necessary to take potshot shots at others...."

Well, I'd say normally no except when clearly done humorously but in the case of a guy like Tom MacWood depending on the things he claims on here to have proof about and then fails to respond or discuss questions about what he says....

...yeah I think it's necessary. Matter of fact I believe it's more than necessary, I believe it's virtually mandatory!  

Would you care to discuss it?  

[SL_Solow]

George; it probably seems like forever but in no time you'll be up waiting for him to come in and losing sleep again.  Its all worth it.

[RJ_Daley]

RJ:

I'm sorry about hijacking this thread with all this garbage about Poor George's death and the creation of PVGC. I won't do it any more on this thread then.

Back to the topic of this thread it is for me:

"Re; Is it really necessary to take potshot shots at others...."

Well, I'd say normally no except when clearly done humorously but in the case of a guy like Tom MacWood depending on the things he claims on here to have proof about and then fails to respond or discuss questions about what he says....

...yeah I think it's necessary. Matter of fact I believe it's more than necessary, I believe it's virtually mandatory!  

Would you care to discuss it?  

Tom, your first statement of not doing it anymore is somewhat in contradiction to the last paragraphs...it seems to me.

For you guys to take this hijacking to some dark corner and discuss it amongst yourselves would be like stopping the film projector the last 10 minutes of "Psycho" or some such interuption.  You don't think we all sat around here all day in our PJ's reading this thing to now not see a big finish, did you?

[TEPaul]

“Sure, Tom, no problem.”

Well, we always do have email. If our brethren get incensed over our discussion then we’ll take it there

”Although George does want it to remain here”

There’s almost nothing I wouldn’t do for George!

“Tom
You can't agree that the story is a huge scoop and then state that there's no point to it.”

Paul:

My answer to that I have wriitten but I think I'll take that one to email to you since it's a complete chronicle on my part of this entire situation with the publicly appointed official wth Tom and us from beginning until now. Since the contributors on here think that kind of thing is taking potshots I'll just email it privately to you, since perhaps you may even be helping him with this article.

[TEPaul]

RJ:

I'd love to accomodate you pal but some seem to want to read it and some say they don't think it should be on here don't want it on here etc. Unfortunately it's impossible to do it both ways.    

[Paul_Turner]

Tom

I'm not helping anyone with any article.

[TEPaul]

"Tom
I'm not helping anyone with any article."

Well, you welsher, you! I thought you told me you'd help me write the totally detailed hole by hole creation of PV! OK, I'll do it myself then! But I'll hand it to you and stand there while you read it. I wanted you to check it out so I feel comfortable that I'm not giving more credit this time to Harry Colt than he really deserves!

Paul:

I'm sorry I made a big mistake back there when I said there were four people that were sworn to secrecy about this Crump death/PVGC article by Tom MacWood. I only listed three of them. You were the fourth I forgot to mention. Sorry about that---I guess that must mean I'm a really unexpert researcher/writer!

[Paul_Turner]

Currently

PS

I have a nice portrait of HSC, if I gave a copy to PVGC do you think they would display it prominently next to George? I don't think I can blow it up quite as large as that huge painting of Crump though!

[TEPaul]

Tom:

And you're the guy who's been screaming about personal attacks? Just amazing.

I'll go get a photo done of me that way. It'd be fun. But you have to promise me you'll use it and you'll have to also promise me you won't cry personal attack all over the Internet when I take your article apart if it's not truthful. Actually now that you've decided to imply on here that I'm a constant drunk would you also like me to cut and past those IMs on here between you and you know who?

Matter of fact, why don't you put a photo of yourself in that article, since no one seems to know what you look like. I've never known anyone on here who knows where the Ivory tower is in Ohio and obviously you don't get out much.

Paul:

That's a great idea. As you know I'll be there on Friday and if you can't blow something up of Harry big enough I might just ask them if they'd consider naming the new dormitory house Harry S. Colt House. You know something, Paul, that just might be doable. I think I'll quietly ask. But let me ask you something---if I could pull that off would you and MacWood still say that you're convinced that the club has this "official face" to glorify Crump and minimize Colt?  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I find 99.95 of the posts on here to be respectful and courteous. The people who are no so, tend to be ignored and go away. I find this site to be a wonderful gift to us all. Sometimes John K gets snow fever and lets his fingers get carried away.

[T_MacWood]

TE
Sorry, I slipped.

Go ahead and post all my IM's to Tommy. I just checked them, I think there are about 8 or 9 all together. They are riviting...people will be on the edge of their seat.  

If there looking for any dirt slinging...they'll be greatly disapointed.

[TEPaul]

"TE
Sorry, I slipped."

Tom:

No problem. Apology accepted, Thank you. I thought it was pretty funny actually but I doubt you did. The thought of a photo of me passed out next to a toilet with a keyboard is sort of bizarre but sure doesn't have anything to do with Crump's suicide, PV, Crum or, Colt's part there or golf architecture. But it might have something to do with architectural aesthetic or concept---we do have some pretty creative people on this site. Saying the things I have about you, though, has everything to do with all those issues, however, and not anything personal that I can tell.  

"Go ahead and post all my IM's to Tommy. I just checked them, I think there are about 8 or 9 all together. They are riviting...people will be on the edge of their seat."

Yes, there are about that many. I emailed them to both of you with a note that we should have a conference call. Did you get the email? I don't think I'll post them here though, certainly not now. I doubt anyone on here would be on the edge of their seats over those IMs. I think they'd more likely feel about the same way I do about them.  

"If there looking for any dirt slinging...they'll be greatly disapointed."

Well, they may not be disappointed in the lack of dirt slinging--I think they'd be just plan be disappointed by what they said.

[T_MacWood]

TE
Nope. I never got your e-mail.

[Gib_Papazian]

This game of intellectual ping-pong is evidently amusing enough to lure the soon-to-be Mrs. Redhead-Dicknozian out of retirement.

I've only skimmed the posts as the kids are curled up on the couch getting ready for bed, but I think we need a definitive answer to whether Crump off'd himself, or was murdered by Colt, hoping to get credit for the work . . . . . ah, maybe not.

But no more far fetched than my contention that Cypress Point was routed by Raynor and Mackenzie simply jiggered a few things around and asked Hunter to cover his tracks . . . . . no Tom (Doak) or Geoff, I am not interested in this debate. I am right and you are both delusional.

Certainly, when the original plans are uncovered, my suspicion will be confirmed.

Brad,

Petty arguments? Hahahahahahahahaha . . . sound a bit uncomfortably like the faculty at most universities?*

I'll let Dedee (a.k.a. Darva) argue this one.

[Brad Klein]

Gib, the standard line at university faculties is that the arguments are so heated because the stakes are so small. That was one small reason I left teaching, only to find out that the arguments are in many ways worse at private golf clubs and on Discussion Groups where the ostensible object of engagement is a sport that's supposed to be fun. I've never had to deal with so many egomanics intent on taking the joy out of something they love - makes me think they are rather miserable wretches inside, almost as bad as frustrated academics.

[guesst]

Gib, the standard line at university faculties is that the arguments are so heated because the stakes are so small.

We "academics" are nothing compared to the fellows on the green committee arguing over whether or not the dead branches on a dying and ugly tree (that was planted by some misguided bird, out having a morning constitutional between hunting for worms, decades after the architect finished the project) can be trimmed without destroying "the architect's intentions . . .

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