[BCowan]

Jeff-I managed to play both Ravisloe and Flossmoor in the same day. Ravisloe has some of the most dynamic bunkering I have seen on a Ross course. The property is fairly flat and the bunkering and the greens really give the course its character and challenge. The greensites were marvelous with most of them being pushed up with numerous runoffs and collection areas (I remember the one on the right of #1 green well because I was there).

Flossmoor certainly has the better piece of property. There are a number of elevation changes on the back nine. The sequence of 16, 17 and 18 brings a fairly pronounced ridge line into play on the approaches to 16...over Eleanor's teeth and 18...with a marvelous large shaved area over the green. #17 tees off on top of that ridge with an approach over a creek to an elevated green. The creek that runs through the back nine is also well utilized. My impression was that the greensites were a little more low profile at Flossmoor, blending into the land they are situated on more than the push-ups at Ravisloe. The movement in the greens was more subtle at Flossmoor.

From my recollection, the goal of the club in dealing with the greens in the renovation was to reclaim some areas that had been lost over the years to maintenance practices. However, I believe some expansion (on a limited basis did take place).

On the whole, I thought the par fours at Flossmoor were very strong as a group and that Ray Hearn did a very nice job in tweaking a very fine golf course.

This is a good post Bill. 

I'd love to see the routing of the original 8th and 9th as I recall someone saying that 9 was a par 4.?  I think Ray did great work on the par 3 7th (few holes with ponds that i like) and I like the 13th hole, but agree that the hiding of the tee doesn't make any sense.  Was original 13th tee before the halfway house?  I didn't care for the 8th green location.  Are the 2 ponds on 8 wetlands or environmentally protected? 

Surprised that Flossmoor doesn't get more posts/love from out of towners, I think it's a great track

[Greg Ohlendorf]

The original eighth hole would have been hole four as the course started at the far north end of the property on what is now the fourth hole. Hole five was number two and hole six was number three. The par three seventh didn't exist then. The eighth (then four, and I know this gets confusing!) played from just north west of the sixth green by the old rain shelter. The eighth green was near today's left side fairway bunkers. Hole nine, then a par four, teed off just to the west of the eighth green.


All of that said, the reason nine was made into a long par four is because hole three, which was added a decade or so after Tweedie's original design, was shortened and made a par four (it was a 553 yard par five) some decades ago to lengthen the driving range. Three was the home hole when it was added to the routing.


The 13th hole used to tee off the high mound that you walk past before you reach the halfway house. It was a short hole, like Ray's new number 13, bit the old green had an 8.5 % slope and could only be pinned in basically one quadrant. The green could also be hit by pushed drives off of the 12th and was dangerous as a result. The new mounds to the right of the new tee basically hide the bathrooms that are by the halfway house and truly have no impact on the hole.


Hope that helps describe some of the evolution of FCC. The course still routes over the very same property and corridors as it did from its inception, and very few classic clubs can say that.


Glad you enjoyed your round.


Greg

[Terry Lavin]

FCC is a must play in the south suburbs, along with both tracks at Olympia.

[Phil McDade]

Ben:


To add to Greg and Terry's comments, the current 8th I believe had a green sited between two ponds, and Hearn thought the hole would play better if the green kind of wrapped around the right-side pond, and provided the player with an option of both a risky play over the pond at the green, or a safer corridor out to the left. It's a very good green, in keeping with Flossmoor's outstanding set (maybe the highlight of the course), although it's probably the least-favorite hole of the good Judge out there.

[BCowan]

Phil/Greg,

   Thanks for the reply and I agree that the 8th green blends in well with the others I just don't like cape water holes.  I also recall others saying that there was a fixation with par 72, so 9 had to be a par 5.  I recall Hearn wanting 8 & 9 to be par 4's. 
 
   Now lets get to all the positives.  I think 3rd turned out well as a par 4, it provided us with lots of indecision on the tee which is a sign of a good/great hole.  We had a 20+ mph tailwind behind us and I didn't lay up enough.  I was 1-2 inches across the 1-2 yard creek and had to hit a 3/4 shot while doing the splits       The 4th was excellent, dishing out many options off the tee.  5 and 6 into the wind were brutes but very enjoyable.  When I got to the 9th tee, I was thankful we weren't playing the tips with a 20+mph wind into our faces . 

   The dip fronting the 10th green is wonderful, great par 5.  11 is a wonderful par 3 with some teeth.  I loved the 12th, its so FU as your standing on the tee.  The nobs to the right of the green are great and reminded me of Inverness.  The 14th is a hole that would be cool to play more then once.  I'm indifferent about the tree in the middle, but didn't understand why so many trees were left on the right side?  I can see someone possibly changing their strategy if they know where the pin is Left vs right.  15-18 are spectacular.  Connecting the fairways was great, it added continuity to those holes. 

  We had a legit plus 5 handicap in our gathering and I think he shot 76 from the tips at Flossmoor.  With the wind and the set up, it is a stern test!  I give Flossmoor a 7.4 with one play and prefer it over Scioto, Canterbury, MVGC, Oakland Hills S, Indianwood, and Old Elm. 

Phil, excellent photo tour! 
 

[Phil McDade]

Ben:


My sense is that Flossmoor really flies under the radar -- not surprising, given the local competition in Chicago -- but it is one tough course. I thought in some ways it was tougher than Beverly just up the road a bit. I like Beverly better overall -- I just think it holds together better than Flossmoor -- but Flossmoor is a really fine test with a bunch of good holes and top-tier greens.

[Terry Lavin]

The only issue with 4 is that the green is designed to accept short shots and the creek takes driver out of play so most guys are hitting six irons in. Great hole great green. But it is compromised by shortening the hole because of the second shot into that green.  IMHO.

[BCowan]

The only issue with 4 is that the green is designed to accept short shots and the creek takes driver out of play so most guys are hitting six irons in. Great hole great green. But it is compromised by shortening the hole because of the second shot into that green.  IMHO.

On #3 it's 225 yard carry from whites and 250 yards carry from blues.  I agree that the carry is a little long for each of those 2 tees. I think that if the blues were where whites are and whites were moved up 20 yards it would entice more to pull out the driver and give it a go.  With a 25 mph wind at my back driver was the play.  Nothing better then a 2-3 yard wide creek as a hazard

[Colin Sheehan]

100 years ago today, Jess Sweetser failed in his bid to defend the US Amateur at Flossmoor by losing to Max Marston on the 38th hole of the finals to a dreaded stymie!


https://photos.app.goo.gl/sQiUfzUTg6hKaqJY6


Imagine the outrage from the eternal justice society?

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