[Sean_A]

Eric

Of all the 14s you have seen - you are gonna stick with a windy Merion?

Bill M

I don't know Pac Dunes, but I gotta believe it beats a pretty basic up n' over hole with an average green - tee hee.

Jeff W

Yes, but is RA's first special as a golf hole?

Garland

Are you still raiding the Confidential Guide?  Live a little. 

Ciao

[Howard Riefs]

It seemed easier in concept: Craft a sub-6,500 yard, par 70 (35-35) with one hole from each of the top 18 courses from the “Top Post-Modern Courses” ranking that Doak and Colton coordinated this summer (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48963.280.html).  

And then I could only find yardages for only a couple holes at Ellerston.  Wolf Point was another challenge but I stumbled across a few yardages from GCA.  All in all, a fun, but exhausting exercise when you hamstring yourself.

1.    550 yards   par 5   Sand Hills
2.    229 yards   par 3   Diamonte
3.    499 yards   par 5   Pacific Dunes
4.    297 yards   par 4   Barnbougle Dunes
5.    424 yards   par 4   Kingsbarns
6.    164 yards   par 3   Ellerston
7.    352 yards   par 4   Ballyneal
8.    193 yards   par 3   Rock Creek
9.    390 yards   par 4   Friars Head

OUT   3,098 yards   par 35

10.   405 yards   par 4   Castle Stuart
11.   460 yards   par 4   Sebonack
12.   139 yards   par 3   Wolf Point
13.   285 yards   par 4   Kingsley
14.   369 yards   par 4   Old Sandwich
15.   650 yards   par 5   Cape Kidnappers
16.   416 yards   par 4   Lost Farm
17.   180 yards   par 3   Bandon Trails
18.   469 yards   par 4   Old Macdonald

IN   3,375 yards   par 35

TOTAL   6,473 yards   par 70

[Tim Bert]

Howard did you use holes out of their place on the orIginal course or was Pacific Dunes 5 a typo?  It is not a par 5.  If you didn't use the 5th hole for the fifth spot and don't identify which hold from Pacific you are using as your 5 th it will be difficult to judge.

[Howard Riefs]

Tim,

Great catch. Thanks for reviewing and catching the error. It was, in fact, a typo. The short par 5 at Pac Dunes is the third -- not the fifth. Time to rejigger a couple holes...

Thanks again.

[Joe Leenheer]

I have a theme....

#1 Inverness - Par 4 - 395 Yards
#2 Scioto - Par 4 - 459 Yards
#3 French Lick - Par 4 - 425 Yards
#4 Scioto - Par 3 - 188 Yards
#5 Pinehurst #2 Course - Par 4 - 475 Yards
#6 Worcester - Par 3 - 207 Yards
#7 Inverness - Par 4 - 481 Yards
#8 Scioto - Par 5 - 509 Yards
#9 Scioto - Par 3 - 160 Yards

Out Yardage - 3299 (Par 34)

#10 Inverness - Par 4 - 363 Yards
#11 Worcester - Par 4 - 408 Yards
#12 Seminole - Par 4 - 365 Yards
#13 Essex - Par 4 - 375 Yards
#14 Salem - Par 3 - 213 Yards
#15 Seminole - Par 5 - 497 Yards
#16 Oakland Hills - Par 4 - 406 Yards
#17 Scioto - Par 3 - 191 Yards
#18 Inverness - Par 4 - 354 Yards

In Yardage - 3172 (Par 35)
Total Yardage - 6471 (Par 69)

[Mac Plumart]

1 - Old Macdonald, Par 4 - 341 Yds
2 - National Golf Links of America, Par 4 - 330 Yds
3 - Ballyneal, Par 3 - 145 Yds
4 - Bethpage Black, Par 5 - 517 Yds
5 - Pacific Dunes, Par 3 - 199 Yds
6 - Kingsley Club, Par 4 - 395 Yds
7 - Ballyneal, Par 4 - 352 Yds
8 - Crystal Downs, Par 5 - 550 Yds
9 - Yale, Par 3 - 213 Yds
10 - Riviera, Par 4 - 315 Yds
11 - Shinnecock Hills, Par 3 - 158 Yds
12 - Cypress Point, Par 4 - 400 Yds
13 - Pacific Dunes, Par 4 - 444 Yds
14 - Friar's Head, Par 5 - 535 Yds
15 - Sand Hills, Par 4 - 469 Yds
16 - Bandon Dunes, Par 4 - 363 Yds
17 - Bandon Trails, Par 3 - 180 Yds
18 - The Old Course, Par 4 - 350 Yds
 - Total, Par 70 - 6256 Yds

As much as I love the course I made, this one comes in a solid 2nd.   

[Ben Sims]

The judge has bowed out early.  Like a groundhog, I guess he saw his longshadow and decided to crawl back into his hole.  A new judge has been appointed. I hope it's not a Bridge too far for him to judge our little event.

Results in 24 hours

PS-He hates Inverness

[Mike_Young]

You guys scared me with those tug toners and so I got out of town.   

[jeffwarne]

 #1.  Mountain  bryson city
#2 beach  boca
#3 palmetto
#4 chi chi rodrigus. Gc

#5  boca hotel "the short"
#6 elkhart Gc
#7  royal palm
#8  pv
#9  Augusta cc

Please accept the guest judge entry

[Mac Plumart]

The judge has bowed out early.  Like a groundhog, I guess he saw his longshadow and decided to crawl back into his hole.  A new judge has been appointed. I hope it's not a Bridge too far for him to judge our little event.

Results in 24 hours

PS-He hates Inverness

 

[jeffwarne]

As we speak the judge is weighing the choices

[Mark Johnson]

I know i missed the deadline, but my last minute entry..

Some notes

- I love back to back par 3s so I did think twice
- Really like holes with strong bookends;  you will see tons of holes with very tricky greens and intimidating tee shots


Hole   Course   Par   Yardage
1   St. Andrews   4   376
2   Cypress   5   548
3   Chicago   3   218
4   Royal County Down   3   228
5   Turnberry   4   479
6   Pac Dunes   4   316
7   Princeville   3   205
8   Royal Aberdeen   3   147
9   Cypress   4   295
   0   33   2812
10   Merion   4   310
11   Shoal Creek   4   384
12   Honors Course   4   355
13   Loch Lomand   5   560
14   White Bear    4   332
15   Kingsbarn   3   185
16   Hazeltine   4   410
17   Oakmont   4   313
18   Carnoustie   4   499
   0   36   3348
   0   69   6160

[Ben Sims]

Folks, this was hard.  Many of you should be proud of your courses and what they represent.

I believe that golf courses are too long.  I believe that the primary challenge for professional players is out of sync with what recreational golfers want and enjoy.  Thoughtful variety in hole lengths and types, well placed hazards, efficient maintenance practices and interesting greens are the bedrock principles of my beliefs in golf.  But if I was to compose a manifesto, the evolution of the length of golf courses would be right up there in my hierarchy of topics.  

I wanted to start this thread to explore the idea behind "short" golf.  I wanted to see what we could come up with as an interesting and fun test of golf when length wasn't a factor.  With inputs from two judges and my own likes and dislikes thrown in, we have winners for the Aggregate Course Competition.  Originality and variety were the two largest components.  In cases where the three of us didn't know a hole, we would consult course websites.  Fortunately, one of us was very well traveled overseas and many of the UK holes were easier to judge.  

There are some awards that don't have prizes attached that I want to award first.

Best Front Nine:  Scott Szabo (Post #46)
Best Back Nine: Jeff Warne (Post #32)

Best Par 3's:  Guy Nicholson (Post #63)
Best Par 4's:  Jason Topp (Post #11)
Best Par 5's:  Jim Colton (Post #124)

Hardest Course:  Mark Saltzman (Post #28)

Hardest course to compile:  Tom Doak (Post #76)

Course we most wanted not to disqualify:  Simon Holt (Post #36)  Might have won if not for yardages being off.  

Honourable Mention:  Mark Rowlinson (Post #70).  It took a solid hour of talking with one of the judges and getting on the internet to properly evaluate this one.  And it's really good.  

And for the winners!

3rd Place:  Patrick Hodgdon (Post #58)

2nd Place:  Michael George (Post #13)

1st Place:  Sven Nilson (Post #74)

In the end, Sven's course has no weaknesses.  That should be the true measure of a great golf course.  I always look to the weaker holes and how they stack up against weaker holes on other golf courses.  Sven's weakest holes (such as Merion #1) are still phenomenal golf holes.  He also has a fluidity that some other courses lacked.  

I had a great time looking at all these golf holes with our judges Mike Young and Jeff Warne.  In the end, the decisions were my own and I based them heavily on the judges' inputs and my own opinions.  The three winners and the honourable mention will be hearing from me in the next couple days when I get home from Aiken.  I'm looking forward to getting in touch with you guys and getting you your schwag or round of golf at Palmetto Golf Club.

[Mac Plumart]

Fun stuff.  Thanks Ben!

[Jason Walker]

I was on the sidelines watching and let me tell you--this was impressive from just about everyone!   

Great idea Ben, lots of fun to watch.

[Scott Szabo]

Hold the phone!  Jeff Warne, judge AND winner of best back nine?  Can you say "conflict of interest"?  Just kidding, this was a lot of fun.  If I'd only thrown in a hole from AFA's Eisenhower courses, I'd have been a sure winner.......

[Garland Bayley]

I vote  best pictorial tour to sean arble.

[Jason Topp]

Congratulations to the winners and thanks Ben for organizing this. I would love to play any of the courses entered.

[Sean_A]

Well done Ben and thanks to the judges. 

I would also extend a well done to S Szabo.  From a course and hole selection POV his course looks very interesting to me. 

Well done Sven. 

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Hold the phone!  Jeff Warne, judge AND winner of best back nine?  Can you say "conflict of interest"?  Just kidding, this was a lot of fun.  If I'd only thrown in a hole from AFA's Eisenhower courses, I'd have been a sure winner.......

In the end I had to recuse myself as a judge due to bias toward UK and Irish links courses, lack of first hand experience at nearly all of western new modern courses, bias toward Sean Arble's picture tours, extreme bias toward Mark Rowlinson's UK tours, and most noteably, a persistent habit of appointing "guest judges" based on qualifications other than classic golf course knowledge.(although impeccable "conditioning" was a trait they all seemed to possess).

I also have disqualified myself as winner of the back nine.
The main reason being, I saw better back sides.......I mean back nines...while judging the competition.
Scott Szabo's came to mind, however, the inclusion of back to back short par 3's, coupled with the front nine inclusion of the postage stamp, weakened an otherwise varied layout.
Therefore, with no authority,  I am awarding best back nine to Jonathon Webb.

Thanks to Ben for putting in a lot of time and effort judging and organizing.

[Tim Martin]

Ben-Thanks for organizing as this was a really fun thread. Congrats to all the winners. I am sure there are hybrids of the original rules that would allow us to have some additional competitions.

[Guy Nicholson]

Yes, fun to participate and read. Great thread.

[Sean_A]

Jeff

All I know is if my "course" didn't get a mention than these others must be incredibly fun - tee hee.  To be honest, I thought I was DQed because I didn't follow ANY tips rule for the yardage.

Back to Scott - his 14th and 15th holes are a stroke of genius and a major reason I find his course so appealing.  My only reservation was the two par 5s. 

In one way it would be good if guys couldn't automatically head for top 25ish courses to find holes - maybe set a limit.  There were far too many representations from this group for my liking.

Ciao 

[Scott Szabo]

Sean,

Interesting regarding the two par fives on my course.  Sand Hills #1, in my opinion, is a terrific par five and a great introduction to the course.  If you haven't seen it up close and personal, you won't know what I'm talking about.  It can be reached in two with a favorable wind, tough to reach in three with a hurting wind.  Terrifying green site with a huge false front than can wreak havoc on any shot not hit precisely. 

As for the other par five, it seemed like a perfect way to end the round.  Similar to Sand Hills #1 the wind can play a huge role in how the hole plays.  Plus the setting can't be beat.

Scott

[Sean_A]

Scott

Not really debating the quality of the holes, but I am not convinced a par 5 ( a potential ball buster at that) is a great starting hole.  the Pebble selection can be excused for sentimental reasons...

Anyway, I thought you wuz robbed!

Ciao

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