[Ally Mcintosh]

Given one country to play in for the rest of my days, I’d surely pick England (if we were talking quality / variety of courses only!)…

You see, I can’t pick the States because there ain’t no links courses… And I can’t pick Ireland because there ain’t no heathlands… And let’s be honest, Scotland hasn’t got them either…

Because of its variety of links AND heath, England wins…. I think… We need to list the good parklands (both new and old)… They obviously won’t get near to the States for quality… But which are the best?... And are they true parklands or heath / park hybrids?

[Sean_A]

Ally

To avoid the debate about what is isn't a heathland course, I will stick with the tradtional labels and thus ignore all which fall in this category.  I haven't seen a totally compelling parkland course in England.  Some are good, but none I have seen stand out as unusually good and usually the reason is they are characterized by heavy if not clay based soils.  Little Aston is the one exception as it plays as heathy as most heathland courses do.  Below are some parklands which are more or less of the same quality (I haven't played any of the Woburn courses); all with a good shout at top 100 in England.   

Bearwood Lakes
Cavendish (Boony - when is it gonna happen?)
Harborne
Little Aston
Prestbury
Southfield

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

How would you classify Ganton?  It doesn't strike me as heathland or downland.  It may not have a "parkland" ambiance but that may be the description that most nearly fits.  And it is the best inland course in the country.

[Sean_A]

How would you classify Ganton?  It doesn't strike me as heathland or downland.  It may not have a "parkland" ambiance but that may be the description that most nearly fits.  And it is the best inland course in the country.

A practically one off category - inland links?

Ciao

[Mark_Rowlinson]

There are so many courses that are impossible to categorise - we have this difficulty every time we try to write a definitive list of links or heathland courses. To Sean's list I might suggest for consideration Huntercombe, Royal Mid-Surrey, Royal Ashdown, Coombe Hill, Ashridge, Blackmoor, Blackwell, Lindrick, Moor Park, Stoneham, Brancepeth Castle, Berkhamsted. And how would we classify Beau Desert or Moortown? I don't think I could call Cavendish parkland, apart from two or three holes. How would we define Aldeburgh, Sheringham (parkland by the sea?).
There are many grey areas to engage the grey matter.

[Sean_A]

Mark

I think that is why I hinted at turf and traditional labels as the guidelines.  For instance, always thought Huntercombe, Stoneham, Beau Desert and Moortown were generally classed as heathland or moorland (in Moortown's case) even though that isn't strictly true, but they sure aren't parkland.  Indeed, I always wondered if Huntercombe wan't more downland in how it played despite the lack of chalky soil.  I wouldn't know what else to call Cavendish other than parkland.  Granted (and this is a positive thing), it may be more of a traditional parkland course where there weren't that many trees and animals shared the ground with humans.  I spose one of the examples I am thinking of (from pix only) is Knowle Park.  It looks to be mainly wide open with a scattering of lovely old specimen trees.  That is what I think of as ideal parkland and tree-lined fairways as an Americanized version of this which British courses later copied - rather stupidly I might add.

Ciao 

[Mark Chaplin]

Wilderness in Sevenoaks, Kent & Little Aston

[Tony_Muldoon]

Can find this old thread


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,23811.0.html


but not my tour of


Thordon Park - Mark I've yet to see Wilderness is is it really better than this?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Re Ganton (Relentless I am!):

Definitely a links. As with all links, it comes down to which Age, Era, or Eon you choose to live in, either forwards or backwards. In some times, links are underwater, in others seaside. Otherwise they are marooned high and dry.

Today, Ganton's marooned -- yet gaze out upon your grandchildren's or great-granchildren's Inlet of Pickering, my fellow posters, and wish the Ganton leadership their best in fighting the authorities to build their bulwarks agin the onrushing North Sea!

PS Not fully appreciated, the space-time continuum has a rent located at the Ganton crossroads in the Vale of Pickering. The popular legend is this rent came when Harry Vardon made a deal with the devil to acquire the Vardon Grip. Hold, that's the legend of Robert Johnson. I say, fellow posters, something seems wrong with our bloody oral history today.

Anyway, scientists tell us this rent was caused by the proliferation of whins, which as you all know are common to a links. Regardless, it does help explain the sense of timelessness golfers often feel there.

[Steve Lang]

How would you classify Ganton?  It doesn't strike me as heathland or downland.  It may not have a "parkland" ambiance but that may be the description that most nearly fits.  And it is the best inland course in the country.

A practically one off category - inland links?

Ciao

that's what i was told by my host when I played there.. and it was easily 6 strokes harder than TOC

[Mark Chaplin]

Tony I've only played Thorndon Park once some may have to grab the county cards and try it out. Standards must be dropping now as they not only allow shorts but also allow short socks!

[Mark Pearce]

Tony I've only played Thorndon Park once some may have to grab the county cards and try it out. Standards must be dropping now as they not only allow shorts but also allow short socks!

Too late to worry about standards when HCEG allow short socks!  Indeed, Deal, Elie and The Berkshire are the only places I know that still require long socks.  I assume Prestwick would, too?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Difficult to define so stringently, isn't it?

I'd be more in line with Sean though... For me, a "parkland" is defined more by soil type and use of land, having to have been developed from an old country estate or from rich farming land (in itself once part of a bigger old estate more than likely)... It doesn't have to be defined by trees though there are bound to be old specimens around at some points...

The best I've seen in England is Little Aston although my knowledge is extremely limited...

[Bill_McBride]

Tony I've only played Thorndon Park once some may have to grab the county cards and try it out. Standards must be dropping now as they not only allow shorts but also allow short socks!

Too late to worry about standards when HCEG allow short socks!  Indeed, Deal, Elie and The Berkshire are the only places I know that still require long socks.  I assume Prestwick would, too?

The end of (British) civilization is nigh!

[Adrian_Stiff]

Parkland is probably the toughest to categorise... a lot of the heathy courses are kinda half and half. True Parkland as Sean said tends to be heavier soils and so by definition that in itself kind of prevents a 'great tag'. The best Parkland might give the new courses a chance like Forest of Arden. Moor Park was one that came to my mind RAC club too... neither made that 100 either. Knole Park is very nice.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

For insistence on long socks and tailored shorts come to Wilmslow.

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