[Mark_Fine]

If you were dropped blind folded onto a golf course designed by a well know architect (dead or alive), which ones would be the hardest to recognize their work?  

I'm not suggesting this is good or bad, I'm just curious what people think and their perspective of architects with  consistent styles/design preferences!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mark,

Pardon my amendment to your post, but Nicklaus, Dye, Jones, Fazio et. al, haven't had their designs compromised over the years by varioius green committees and zealous members due to their relative youth.

Tillinghast, Ross, Travis, McKenzie, Thomas et. al., have had their designs compromised, severly in many cases, hence they are less distinguishable because they can't be found in their unadulterated, pure form.

[Mark_Fine]

Pat,
I agree, some of the older guys are harder to identify because of all the changes.  I recall Geoff Shackelford commenting to me one time that less than 10% of their work remains.  But if you have difficulty with the classic architects, what about the modern ones.  Whose styles are most easily recognizable and why?
Mark

[TEPaul]

That's a good question! Other than recognizably rugged bunkering I would say Hanse, Doak and Coore and Crenshaw are doing work the styles of which are going to be hard to recognize.

The reason is I think they are all stretching themselves architecturally!

[TEPaul]

Although I've never seen anything by Kelly Blake Moran, it seems like he's trying to stretch himself too with different styles or architectural directions. That's what he said on here anyway and I'm really looking forward to seeing his work done and under construction this year. Mike Cirba has been high on what he's done so far and Mike's recommendations are very realiable to me.

So maybe Kelly Blake Moran will be hard to recognize either now or soon!

[John_Conley]

Nicklaus.  His early work had a number of partners.  In the 80s he embarked in a direction we fortunately don't see today.  His more recent work resembles Tom Fazio's - wide corridors and sweeping lines.

A course developer once answered my observation that all courses around here were starting to look alike.  "When you've got one guy getting all the jobs, it's no surprise to see the others more like him."

[Jeff_Brauer]

Historcially speaking, I think Tillie is the hardest to typecast.  I visited Golden Valley in Minnesota, which is credited to him (I'm doing this from memory) just after SFGC.  My guess would be that after coming up with those wonderfull bunkers at SF, he would maintain the style.  But GVCC has small rounded pot bunkers distinguishing the designs.  I haven't seen a lot of Tillie, but it seems he had a wider style variety.

Now, TEPaul has an interesting before drink/after drinks theory on how Tillie changed, but I'll bet he drew a plan and left it to different crews, which explains the difference.  

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

I think they are all difficult with few rare exceptions. But the subject fascinates me and I make a conscious effort to look for individual traits. As pointed out, what makes it difficult are the alterations that have occured over the years and the influence of the construction crews or supervisers. I think it would interesting to analyze the differences between Ross courses built by Hatch and McGovern - I suspect they had distinctive characteristics. Another interesting study is how an indiviual architects style changes and evolves. For the older architects I think it helps to look at old photos and sketches.

[TEPaul]

No doubt Tillinghast may be the best candidate for the architect whose style is hardest to recognize as JeffB says. If someone can recognize similarities between Winged Foot and Wyoming Valley, for instance, your really know you're stuff!

The creativeness of his holes was not even a before drinks/after drinks thing. The only time Tillie didn't drink was when he was asleep. You just had to give him some time throughout the day to really get rolling! In other words there was more genius in Tillie when that flask was running near empty than when it was running near full!

[Craig_Rokke]

I'd be interested in hearing more about the McGovern/Hatch contrasts within Ross's body of work. I'm sure that if you compared some of the projects that they followed through to completion vs some of the ones Ross was more extensively involved with, there would be some differences as well. Ross's early 1900's work must also be vary from the work he performed in Carolina during the 30's and 40's.

[Solario]

Im going to have to go with Tillinghast also.

[Mike_Cirba]

William Flynn

Tom Paul's mention of my respect for Kelly Blake Moran's style is true enough, but I must admit to only having played one of his courses.  The fact I am so high on it should speak for itself, but I also think that some of the bunker shaping could have been improved somewhat.  I'm really hopeful that Moran will be blessed with working with some really creative shapers and construction companies in his future work.  

His greens, on the other hand, are almost revolutionary in concept and execution.  They are so far beyond what 99% of other modern architects are willing to attempt that one couldn't help but be mightily impressed.  

Also, to address Tim Jackson's question on another thread, Moran's use of strategy is SO apparent that someone would have to be blind to not notice and consider it very seriously during their play.  

[Derek_L]

Here's something to ponder:  You know I think that as a designer, if I was one, and maybe this is why I am not one, but I think that each and everyone of my designs would be different, of course there would be similarities, but what I am getting at is that each and every peice of land is different and presents the opportunity for a different type or style of golf course. Now I am a fan of the feathery edge style bunkers that Tillie and the Doc were known to create, but I am unsure if every golf course design would require that style bunker.  Ibeleive that golf as a game would get really boring and monotonous if every course looked that same, but I guess with the many designers out there, that will never happen.  I don't know, just something to think about, the same type of tees and bunkers and mounding on every tract of land (ugly and maybe not form fitting to the land) would probably be boring, I mean we are not creating cookie cutter "houses" (so to speak here) here or are we?  Until later.....

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