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Phil_the_Author

Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« on: January 13, 2011, 02:27:34 PM »
One of the things that sets Tillinghast apart from all of his contemporaries past, present and most likely so in the future, is how much he wrote about the specifics of golf course architecture, especially of the individual principles he believed in. I have picked 10 different principles that he felt very strong about. They are not listed in a “Top Ten” type of order, but rather they are taken at random from my coming Volume II about Tilly. Some you may be aware of, but I am quite sure that at least one or two will surprise you:

10 – Golf course designs are site specific. This enabled him to bring NATURE into his designs: “One vital feature was neglected by most of the old-time builders of American links. They persistently ignored Nature, and when introducing artificial creations little
effort was exerted towards making them appear natural…

9 - “A hole is as long as it plays. While it is possible to form an impression of the merits of a course by scanning the tabulated distances, really no idea of the value of the holes can be conceived by looking at the yardage on paper. A hole may be of the generally accepted length of excellence and yet be an abomination, and by the same token, one which appears to measure up to hit or miss standard may be good because of some unique conditions which shows on the ground but not in pencil.”

8- “Tinkers – Amateur golf course architects flourish as do lilies of the field. Their numbers, among the members of all golf clubs, increase steadily. For the most part their many suggestions reveal the propensity to discuss units rather than the faculty of recognizing the proper relation of each of eighteen holes with seventeen others. A truly great course is a happy family living together harmoniously under one roof, and each, from pere to mere down to the little tads, genuinely alive to the duty of preserving the honor of the name.”

7- Golf should be fun and a well-designed course encourages it - "Now a golf course represents quite a chunk of pasture, sufficiently extensive to permit of considerable conversation, even though tones at times be over normal. But, at the same time, it certainly is too spacious for a morgue... Show me a course on which laughter abounds and I will know that here is a successful club..."

6- Hazards - “Golf demands greater accuracy throughout than any of these [baseball, tennis, soccer, lacrosse, football, etc…] and differs from all in one remarkable feature. It is the one game in which the player’s ball is not subject to the interference of the opponent. It is the question of the supremacy of the accurate strokes without human interference, but there exists interference, nevertheless, and its name is ‘Hazard,’ which is golfese for trouble…
      “The casual visitor to any golf course naturally carries away with him a vivid impression of some particular section of the course, which afterward is a mental picture of the course in general wherever his thoughts revert to it. Nine times out of ten the minds camera has been focused on the most prominent hazard, no matter whether the player has come to grief there or not
      “A course without notable hazards is a course without distinction.”

5- On what should a course be judged? - “Among the ‘wise saws and sayings’ that I have been handed down throughout the years is this one – ‘ There is no disputing tastes, as the old lady remarked as she kissed the cow.’ Certainly this must be applied to golf and its courses. The merit of any course should be judged by the satisfaction it affords to those who play it. It may not measure up to the standards of the most discriminating players but after all it is a matter of taste.”

4- A good design creates the need for ACCURATE placement of drives. - “When it is more generally realized that a truly fine round of golf represents the accurate fitting together of shots that bear a distinct relation to each other, with the greens opening up to best advantage after placed drives, then the game will be a truer test of all the mighty ones than so many courses now present… American courses are improving generally, and I believe that our best are the best in the world. They will be greater when more attention is paid to accurate placement rather than yardage.”

3- A good design demands more from the better player than the lesser. – “For a long time the greatest obstacle in the way of modern courses in America was the opposition of the mediocre player. He fancied that any attempt to stiffen the courses must make them so difficult that the play would be beyond his powers. But now he realizes that the modern golf architect is keeping him and his limitations in mind all the while he is cunningly planning problems which require the expert to display his greatest skill in negotiating par figures. We are planning and building not to penalize very poor strokes, but rather those which are nearly good.”

2- The importance of the architect. - “The building of a golf course is costly, and it should not be attempted without serious thought. Undoubtedly the average green committee wastes a great deal of money. The committeemen may know golf, and they may be practical men, too, but nevertheless, they are likely to make many mistakes. This is but natural, for golf course construction is unique, and it requires many years of experiment and actual development before one can be said to know much of it. The country is dotted with courses which have cost many thousands of dollars to build, and yet on these courses we find many constructive errors, which, while not only robbing the links of distinction, prevent them from ever rising above mediocrity…

1- The importance of the entrance/approach to the green. - “Comparatively few ever give a thought about the character of the approach. As a matter of fact this is quite as important as the green itself, but unfortunately it is only too frequently neglected. Attention to such details, seemingly unimportant in the conceptions of so many, makes the difference between an outstanding course and one that is just so-so.”


« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 02:30:48 PM by Philip Young »

Rob Bice

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Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2011, 03:13:37 PM »
Fantastic list, numbers 3 and 4 in particular.

Can you provide some examples of #3?  Characteristics, specific holes, etc.?  One of the points I have tried to get my head around.  I hear too often that changes to a course that make it more difficult for better players end up making it even more difficult for worse players.  Very curious about this point.
"medio tutissimus ibis" - Ovid

George Pazin

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Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2011, 03:15:46 PM »
9 - “A hole is as long as it plays. While it is possible to form an impression of the merits of a course by scanning the tabulated distances, really no idea of the value of the holes can be conceived by looking at the yardage on paper. A hole may be of the generally accepted length of excellence and yet be an abomination, and by the same token, one which appears to measure up to hit or miss standard may be good because of some unique conditions which shows on the ground but not in pencil.”

8- “Tinkers – Amateur golf course architects flourish as do lilies of the field. Their numbers, among the members of all golf clubs, increase steadily. For the most part their many suggestions reveal the propensity to discuss units rather than the faculty of recognizing the proper relation of each of eighteen holes with seventeen others. A truly great course is a happy family living together harmoniously under one roof, and each, from pere to mere down to the little tads, genuinely alive to the duty of preserving the honor of the name.”

 I nominate these two as the most commonly violated of the ten.

It's a pity that more architects haven't copied the HHA bunker type par 5. Well, I guess they kind of have, they just put water in instead!
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jim Eder

Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2011, 03:36:16 PM »
Philip,

Thanks for the post. I just ordered your first Tillinghast book and can't wait for volume II. Thanks.

JMEvensky

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Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2011, 03:41:03 PM »
Phil,thanks for taking the time.

My coffee table is still without its AWT book however.Please rectify this ASAP.

Mac Plumart

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Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2011, 03:54:45 PM »
Cutting and pasting this bad boy for the files.  Thanks Phil.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Phil_the_Author

Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2011, 03:55:53 PM »
Rob,

Here is an example of #3 from a Tilly concept drawing:


Consider the three different options he allows for players of varying skill levels. The person who might drive it 180 yards (or less) a straight carry onto fairway without reaching the bunker beyond. The person of a better skill level who can drive it 200+ yards has to choose just how close to come to the right side bunker. The exceptional player who can drive it further is faced with one of a chaallenge to his accuracy. Tilly wrote about "Pull" and the better players that their tendency for a mishit was to pull it. Notice here how the more the better player pulls it the narrower the area he has to hit into due to the curvature of the fairway.

The second shots allow for the lesser player to play to an area where he will be left with an open shot into the gren with nothing in his way, whereas the better the player, the more likely their second shot will have to challenge the fronting bunker and steep downslop between bunker and green.

For those that don't know, the lines INSIDE the bunker line reflects sand up the face such as in the two side bunkers. The front bunker has a grass face as shown by the lines OUTSIDE of the bunker line and between it and the green surface.

Phil_the_Author

Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2011, 03:57:42 PM »
Jim,

Both myself and my publisher thank you!  ;D

JM, I'm working away at it. The biggest problem is the photographs, a most expensive little item!


Brett_Morrissy

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Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2011, 04:58:37 PM »
George,
Can you explain the HHA bunker Par 5 pls?
@theflatsticker

George Pazin

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Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2011, 05:02:32 PM »
Par 5s that are definite 3 shot holes with a Hell's Half Acre bunker. Just strikes me as a concept worth imitating, as long as it's a bunker and not water.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Rob Bice

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Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2011, 05:10:42 PM »
Rob,

Here is an example of #3 from a Tilly concept drawing:


Consider the three different options he allows for players of varying skill levels. The person who might drive it 180 yards (or less) a straight carry onto fairway without reaching the bunker beyond. The person of a better skill level who can drive it 200+ yards has to choose just how close to come to the right side bunker. The exceptional player who can drive it further is faced with one of a chaallenge to his accuracy. Tilly wrote about "Pull" and the better players that their tendency for a mishit was to pull it. Notice here how the more the better player pulls it the narrower the area he has to hit into due to the curvature of the fairway.

The second shots allow for the lesser player to play to an area where he will be left with an open shot into the gren with nothing in his way, whereas the better the player, the more likely their second shot will have to challenge the fronting bunker and steep downslop between bunker and green.

For those that don't know, the lines INSIDE the bunker line reflects sand up the face such as in the two side bunkers. The front bunker has a grass face as shown by the lines OUTSIDE of the bunker line and between it and the green surface.

Great stuff, thanks.  Tee boxes of different lengths only add to the concept.

Seems to also challenge a golfer mentally to see if he understands his game well enough to choose the appropriate strategy.  Fortunately each round is unto itself and can't be repeated through numerous trials - tempts the player to try the miraculous when a much more prudent path exists.
"medio tutissimus ibis" - Ovid

Brett_Morrissy

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Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2011, 05:18:42 PM »
I just love the way Tilly has the green entrance open on the RHS for the 3rd shot on this P4.

Where is that hole? Was it built, or just a design?
Is the 11th at SFGC a little like that?
@theflatsticker

Phil_the_Author

Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2011, 05:43:17 PM »
The "Hell's Half Acre" concept is not a bunker, although it can be. It is a type of what Tilly referred to as a "Great Hazard." It derives its name from a 6-block area in downtown Philly when during the late 1890's to early 1900's it was called "Hell's Half Acre" because it was the last place you would want to enter. It was an area where prostitutes, drugs, muggings, murders and more were the daily part of life. It was so dangerous that the police wouldn't enter it at night.

Tilly took that concept to create a large hazard that would encompass an entire area of a hole in a manner that one had to do whatever they could to avoid it for it was literally the last place you would want your ball to end up. That is why it is usually a mixture of numerous large and small bunkers mixed in with heavy grasses and rough that was never flat.

Other examples of Tilly "Great Hazards" are the Sahara bunker which is quite often thought of as a "Hell's Half Acre" but usually isn't.

Phil_the_Author

Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2011, 05:50:39 PM »
Brett,

I apologize, I can't remember which course it was for off hand. I'll have to look it up for you.

As for the 11th at SFGC:


This is an example of how even on a par-3 Tilly would often allow for the play of the lesser player. Note the short fairway area front right of the green that would allow for a safe play to it with an easy up.

Brett_Morrissy

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Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2011, 10:25:42 PM »
Brett,

I apologize, I can't remember which course it was for off hand. I'll have to look it up for you.

As for the 11th at SFGC:


This is an example of how even on a par-3 Tilly would often allow for the play of the lesser player. Note the short fairway area front right of the green that would allow for a safe play to it with an easy up.

Sorry Phillip,
I made an error there on the holes at SFGC!

I should of said it reminds me of either #5 or #15, both have from the left FW DZ a requirement to hit the approach shot either over a front left hazard, or play out to the right and chip up thru the entrance.
Not sure but it certainly 'feels' like #15, although not sure it had green side LHS bunker pin high.
@theflatsticker

Tom MacWood

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Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2011, 11:33:12 PM »

Other examples of Tilly "Great Hazards" are the Sahara bunker which is quite often thought of as a "Hell's Half Acre" but usually isn't.


Great hazards, sahara bunkers and hha, what differentiates each?

Phil_the_Author

Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2011, 01:07:51 AM »
Tilly’s “Great Hazard” is a GENERAL title for several different STYLES of large areas of hazard. It can be found in a number of different forms and even combinations.

These can be those that involve an entire section of the fairway from one side of the rough to the opposite side. The sketch below is an example of this:


This “Great Hazard” is a SAHARA bunker, the forward end of which is higher than the rest of it. This is shown by the lines at the far end of it. Even though the two bunkers shown on opposite sides of the fairway that drives need to carry are large, these are neither “Great Hazards” nor Sahara bunkers. Due to its massive size it is also a “Hell’s Half Acre” type of “Great Hazard.”

Tilly’s SAHARA bunkers are ALWAYS “Great Hazards” but they are NOT always “Hell’s Half Acre’s.” A “HHA” encompasses the entire fairway from one side to the other upon which it is constructed, and in so doing creates two distinct fairway sections. Below is an example of a “Sahara” bunker which is a great hazard, but because it doesn’t create the two distinct fairway sections, it isn’t a “HHA”:


This is unquestionably a “Great Hazard” and, even with the few small grass hummocks in it, it is a “Sahara” yet it actually only impacts onto the fairway depending upon how far a drive and how much of it the player CHOOSES to carry. This is NOT a “HHA.”

The “Hell’s Half Acre” “Great Hazard” must bisect the fairway creating two distinct areas. Though most often found on par-5’s it can also be found on par-4’s. The one below is from the Philadelphia Cricket Club. It may be all sand, or a large sand area with islands of grass hummocks, a combination of individual bunkers of varying size and numbers and grass areas or even as below which is an area predominately of rough with a minimal number of bunkers placed within:


There are a number of other ways that Tilly used “Great Hazards” and these will all be discussed in Tilly Volume II.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 01:09:27 AM by Philip Young »

Phil_the_Author

Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2011, 01:10:47 AM »
Brett,

I'll provide an answer for you tomorrow. I think a better example than 15 is 3, but I'll show you both then.

Tom MacWood

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Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2011, 06:09:20 AM »
Did Tilly refer to that bunker on #7 as a Sahara? Other than the 7th at Bethpage what are some other examples of Tilly's Sahara bunkers that are not HHA?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 06:12:04 AM by Tom MacWood »

Phil_the_Author

Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2011, 07:37:27 AM »
Tom,

I'm not going to do a list of bunkers on courses for you. If you don't agree with my definition or explanation that is fine. I will give you another example. You'll note that I didn't have to go very far:


There are a number of examples of "Sahara" bunkers that are not "HHA" in the New York area alone. There are even some examples of what have been mistakenly called "HHA's".

You need to learn more about WHO named the bunkers what before you can begin to make any argument on this. For example, can you name the bunker(s) that Tilly himself called either "Hell's Half Acre" or "Sahara?" When you can then you will understand the defitinition...

George Pazin

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Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2011, 10:15:27 AM »
The "Hell's Half Acre" concept is not a bunker, although it can be. It is a type of what Tilly referred to as a "Great Hazard." It derives its name from a 6-block area in downtown Philly when during the late 1890's to early 1900's it was called "Hell's Half Acre" because it was the last place you would want to enter. It was an area where prostitutes, drugs, muggings, murders and more were the daily part of life. It was so dangerous that the police wouldn't enter it at night.

Tilly took that concept to create a large hazard that would encompass an entire area of a hole in a manner that one had to do whatever they could to avoid it for it was literally the last place you would want your ball to end up. That is why it is usually a mixture of numerous large and small bunkers mixed in with heavy grasses and rough that was never flat.

Other examples of Tilly "Great Hazards" are the Sahara bunker which is quite often thought of as a "Hell's Half Acre" but usually isn't.


Thanks for the explanation, Phil.

Do you think Tilly would have approved of the use of a water hazard as a great hazard?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Phil_the_Author

Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2011, 12:39:47 PM »
Hi George,

Good question. Tilly didn't design water hazards, rather, he incorporated the water on a property into his designs. So even though some appear to be "great hazards" due to their size and impact on the hole, he wouldn't have viewed them as such. Here's an example:


Clearly this is a large water hazard especially when you compare its size to the bunkering on the hole. If this was sand there is no question that one would consider it a Sahara bunker. Yet all Tilly did was create a hole design using the existing lake in a manner where it would challenge players of every skill level. Note how the point of the water narrows down the further into the fairway it extends and as a result provides a greater challenge for the talented player who can drive it further. He accomplished this by the left-side fairway "Alps" area that doesn't come into play for the less talented player yet still provides enough of a fun challenge getting over it to the large section of fairway not far from the tee.

He viewed water of this type on a golf course as a "feature" rather than as a "hazard." For Tilly, hazards were more of a man-made creation than the challenge of what Nature posed. In light of that, consider again the first design principle that I posed, “One vital feature was neglected by most of the old-time builders of American links. They persistently ignored Nature, and when introducing artificial creations little effort was exerted towards making them appear natural…"

So even though he used the word "hazard" regarding lakes and streams, he didn't view these as the same as the man-made hazards, such as his "great hazard" concepts.


Phil_the_Author

Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2011, 01:11:38 PM »
Hi Brett,

Sorry for the delay on the answer. Let’s consider 5 & 15 and then 3.

There are three main features in the hole type that you are interested in. First, the DZ allows differing areas for players of different skill levels with some sort of hazard that needs to be either carried or worked around. Well that can be clearly seen from Tilly’s drawing. The second feature for the lesser player is an ability to play down the fairway to a point where they will be left with an open shot into the putting surface. This too can be clearly seen. It is the third aspect that isn’t incorporated into this hole. That is, the further and better the drive the player is then faced with a carry over a greenside bunker that blocks off a portion of the entrance from that angle. The 5th hole is completely open, and although it allows for a less talented player to have a fair chance at scoring well, it doesn’t present the challenge to the more skilled player:


The 15th hole is similar in that it too doesn’t present that green side fronting challenge for the skilled player:


Now consider the 3rd hole and you will notice how different the green side entrance challenge is. This hole incorporates all three aspects of that specific hole type and does it remarkably well in a subtly cunning way:
 

Hope that answers your question

Tom MacWood

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Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2011, 02:01:29 PM »
Tom,

I'm not going to do a list of bunkers on courses for you. If you don't agree with my definition or explanation that is fine. I will give you another example. You'll note that I didn't have to go very far:


There are a number of examples of "Sahara" bunkers that are not "HHA" in the New York area alone. There are even some examples of what have been mistakenly called "HHA's".

You need to learn more about WHO named the bunkers what before you can begin to make any argument on this. For example, can you name the bunker(s) that Tilly himself called either "Hell's Half Acre" or "Sahara?" When you can then you will understand the defitinition...

Phil
I don't believe Tilly ever referred to his Great Hazards as HHA or Sahara. The most famous HHA is the 7th at PVGC (Tilly took credit for the design of that hole), and I've not found any reference to it being called HHA prior to 1950. There is also a HHA at Five Farms. I'm not sure when it was given that title or by whom. Tilly wrote a detailed description of Five Farms and never referred to it that way.

The Sahara was a famous hole at Sandwich, more or less a drivable par-4 over large expanse of sand. The second at NGLA was inspired by it. I have found no reference to anyone calling the large bunkers at Bethpage-Black #5 or #7 Saharas. Where did you find that?

The Great Hazard on long par-5s was often repeated concept for Tilly, but to my knowledge he never mentioned anything about differing Sahara concept. What is the history of that concept and what are some of the holes beyond Bethpage?

DMoriarty

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Re: Phil's Tilly List #1... 10 Design Principles...
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2011, 03:09:28 PM »
I've seen the phrase used to refer to the the 15 at the Olympic Club in the 1920's.

Phillip, many cities and towns had rough areas called "Hell's Half Acre."  Fort Worth's was particularly famous. 
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

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