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Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Did they avoid the dramatic dunes in the late 1800/ early 1900 links layouts ?
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2010, 10:51:14 AM »
Quote from: Melvyn Hunter Morrow on December 23, 2010, 09:48:54 AM


NO

Melvyn

Do you think Melvyn?

If you take your great grandfather, I'm not sure he worked on any mountainous courses although I will await your correction. Which holes did he advise on at Royal County Down?

The turf must have been key.
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Mark Pearce

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Re: Did they avoid the dramatic dunes in the late 1800/ early 1900 links layouts ?
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2010, 12:11:49 PM »
Quote from: Bill_McBride on December 22, 2010, 10:53:53 AM
Quote from: mike_malone on December 21, 2010, 11:00:14 AM
   I don't have an objective gauge of "dramatic" but 50 feet still seems less than dramatic to me.

Mike, look for a five story building and think about hitting a tee shot over it from down the street a few hundred feet.   That's fifty feet.
Bill,

Exactly.  We had a 4 storey building at school which housed, amongst other things, the science labs.  I remember in one lesson measuring the effect of gravity and having to measure the height of that 4 storey block.  35 feet, I think.  A 50 foot dune in play would be very dramatic.

Mark
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In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Sean_A

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Re: Did they avoid the dramatic dunes in the late 1800/ early 1900 links layouts ?
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2010, 07:52:16 PM »
Quote from: mike_malone on December 21, 2010, 11:00:14 AM
   I don't have an objective gauge of "dramatic" but 50 feet still seems less than dramatic to me.

How high does a dune need to be to seem dramatic to you?  At 50 feet a designer would seriously be pushing the limits.  As examples, I am guessing

St Enodoc's 6th to be about 20-25 feet above the fairway
Sandwich's 4th about the same, maybe a bit less high
Lahinch's Klondyke to be a bit taller than #6 at St Enodoc
Burnhams's 10th to be about 20 feet above the tee

The tallest I would know of would be Burnham's Majuba back in the day and that would probably top out around 35 feet above what would have been the old tee.  I don't know how guys did it with the old equipment.

Ciao
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New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend, Alnmouth & Cruden Bay St Olaf

paul cowley

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Re: Did they avoid the dramatic dunes in the late 1800/ early 1900 links layouts ?
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2010, 08:58:55 PM »
The Dunes Course at Diamante in Cabo are in excess of 100' in places and were a challenge, but its not as much the overall height, but the steepness of side slopes and the space between the dune ridges that are the key issues in creating space for a suitable golf hole.

Tom D on his visit there said he had never worked on a site as severe.

Ballybunion New is similar and a great redo opportunity in my mind.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 09:05:15 PM by paul cowley »
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paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Tom_Doak

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Re: Did they avoid the dramatic dunes in the late 1800/ early 1900 links layouts ?
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2010, 10:02:09 PM »
Paul:

They are still trying to figure out how to fix Ballybunion New.  I couldn't figure out how; maybe you can!
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paul cowley

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Re: Did they avoid the dramatic dunes in the late 1800/ early 1900 links layouts ?
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2010, 11:08:03 PM »
Tom....after the first 8 holes I started to redesign with a blank canvas....pass the word if you care...the site is too good to not be what it could be.
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paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

mike_malone

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Re: Did they avoid the dramatic dunes in the late 1800/ early 1900 links layouts ?
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2010, 09:55:54 AM »
 I've wondered if Cashen would be better as 12 good holes that had alternate tees for another six on each side. The walk is horrendous there.
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AKA Mayday

RSLivingston_III

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Re: Did they avoid the dramatic dunes in the late 1800/ early 1900 links layouts ? New
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2010, 05:33:46 PM »
Tom

Are you familiar with any use of significantly raised tees during the ending decades of the gutty era?
US or UK
I think I have identified one at Kent CC in GR that I believe might date back to the original 1899 course.
I'd really rather know about 1860-1890 courses.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 04:16:49 PM by RSLivingston_III »
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"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
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