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Phil Benedict

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Are Tillinghast Courses More Adaptable to Modern Green Speeds?
« on: August 24, 2014, 07:10:45 PM »
Ian Baker Finch made the comment during today's telecast that Tillinghast's greens have less severe slopes than the other Golden Age architects, almost like he anticipated faster green speeds, and that his courses are more suited to modern maintenance standards.  Is this true?
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Are Tillinghast Courses More Adaptable to Modern Green Speeds?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2014, 07:22:04 PM »
Haven't played enough of Tillie's to know, but think most of his greens were in the 4-6% range, common for the day.  Phil Young would know more.
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

jeffwarne

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Re: Are Tillinghast Courses More Adaptable to Modern Green Speeds?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2014, 09:19:32 PM »
the real shame is that modern maintenance standards don't match classic greens........... ::) ::)
exactly backwards,
 maybe one day people will measure their johnsons by the slope,tilt, and interest of the greens,
rather than an absolute stimp #
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mark McKeever

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Re: Are Tillinghast Courses More Adaptable to Modern Green Speeds?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2014, 09:46:57 AM »
Quote from: jeffwarne on August 24, 2014, 09:19:32 PM
maybe one day people will measure their johnsons by the slope,tilt, and interest of the greens,
rather than an absolute stimp #


Quote of the day!!   :D
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A.G._Crockett

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Re: Are Tillinghast Courses More Adaptable to Modern Green Speeds?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2014, 01:28:31 PM »
Could be wrong, but I think it was Feherty that said that.  I thought it was a very interesting thought, and could well be true, but have no idea how you would quantify that belief at this late date.
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"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Mark_Fine

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Re: Are Tillinghast Courses More Adaptable to Modern Green Speeds?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2014, 07:33:44 PM »
Absolutely not!  Aren't these the same guys who said Ross built mostly turtleback greens like those at Pinehurst #2  :o :o

Don't believe everything you hear when it comes to golf architecture from the TV commentators. 
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Brad LeClair

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Re: Are Tillinghast Courses More Adaptable to Modern Green Speeds?
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2014, 03:43:05 PM »
Having seen some of his more challenging designs within the past few years in the northeast area, I would have to disagree with the characterization. Hopefully the statement (which I didn't hear on the broadscast) wasn't inspired by the lack of contours at Bethpage Black as an example.   Admittedly I am not the authority on course history but having seen 30+ Tillinghast gems and the contrast between BpB's greens is quite striking.  Has it been definitively concluded that he did not build the greens there? 
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Mark_Fine

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Re: Are Tillinghast Courses More Adaptable to Modern Green Speeds?
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2014, 02:38:55 PM »
Brad,
There are many old threads on the greens at The Black.  They are not what you would find on most Tillinghast courses.  I have always said, if you put the green contours of Winged Foot West on The Black course, no one would play it.  I would have to do a new count but I have seen maybe 45 or 50 Tillie designs and believe me, the TV commentators don't have a clue about his greens. 
Mark
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