[Patrick_Mucci]

If Winged Foot was supposedly in such great shape this year then why did the club feel compelled to send out a letter this summer to the membership basically apologiizing for the poor conditions?

Some might call that "a shot across one's bow."
Others might call it, "building a case."
Others might say, for the same reason that Elmwood CC and other Westchester courses had their problems.

Why do you think they sent out the letter ?

Who signed it ?

Did you play the course this summer ?
If so, how did you find the conditions ?

[Carl Nichols]

Carl,

I'm not speculating about anything.

However, I'm under no obligation to enlighten you or anyone else.

Pat:
I certainly didn't claim that you have some obligation to enlighten me or anyone else.  But you have stated on this thread that Mr. Burrows was let go because of "Politics" rather than "Agronomy," and right now that's a completely unsupported statement.  I realize it might be true, but it also might not be. 

[Michael Ryan]

I have the good fortune to play Winged Foot once a year, twice if I'm lucky.  In July of 2010, my host emailed to push back our late July date to the early fall "as the golf course was really struggling".  I played in October and it was in what I would say "normal Winged Foot", ie fantastic condition.  I played in late July of this year and we had to play a temporary tee on 5 West as the tee had recently been re-sodded.  The fairways were spotty and the greens were on the slow side.  I was told that this was a marked improvement on conditions from late June.  I know that other courses in Westchester were in rough shape in 2011, Westchester CC in late July / early August was being discussed in the Met Section for its poor playing condition.  I did not play Westchester until early September so I can't comment on that specifically.  Back to Winged Foot, it sounds like they have had tough years in 2010 and 2011 from their normal presentation.  I hate to hear about anyone losing their job, but when I heard that Winged Foot had parted ways with their guy, I was not surprised.

[Jay Flemma]

Hey guys, this was not the direction this thread was meant to go at all...maybe we should sort of take a step back and get back to talking about how and why Winged Foot is easier with the rough down and how holes change in playing strategies as conditions change and talk about supers' jobs on a thread later on if anything happens? 

I'll start.  Somebody asked, so I'll bring it up to get the ball rolling - I had 5 pars in my round on the west.  I don't really keep score on days like that - that was a "jolly golf" days as another thread calls it, but I did have five pars, including 3 and 10, two tough par-3s...and a closing par on 18!  I one-putted:)

I think the fact that the rough was down because we are out of season was a big help because I could advance the ball towards the green every time. Remember we are talking about late, late November golf.  We were lucky to get out at all - with all the ridiculous record setting rain this year and snow on Halloween, conditions were excellent.  Plus we had 60 degrees.  Epic and wonderful.  Great place, truly great partner, and great fun all day long.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jay,

While the rough can be brutal, even with reasonable rough, commensurate with other clubs, WFW is still the hardest member's course there is.

Historically, when you hear that someone is a low or very low handicap, and their home course is Winged Foot, you know they have to be one hell of a player.

Even with # 9 and # 16 as par 5's, it's a very difficult challenge.

My thoughts on why it's so hard relate to the difficulty in recovering should you miss a green.
All of those greens are canted/contoured and missing to the wrong side makes it almost impossible to "up and down" your recovery.

In addition, it's very hard to make a putt of more than 10 feet due to the cant/contours.

[Jay Flemma]

16 was the only hole that made me scratch my head - as both a par-5 or par-4.  Something about its sharp lines and weird left turn didn't appeal to my eye I guess.  As a par-4 it must be a murderous thing...

[Patrick_Mucci]

16 was the only hole that made me scratch my head - as both a par-5 or par-4.  Something about its sharp lines and weird left turn didn't appeal to my eye I guess.  As a par-4 it must be a murderous thing...

Isn't that why they named it "Hells Bells" ?

[Jay Flemma]

A funky name, to be sure, but remember Tillie designed it as a par-5...so Hell's Bells is less fierce than if it were a par-4.

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