Jeff Brauer,
It could be that the 51 acres were to the northeast of the property, as described by Weeks, but as I said I have my doubts. Rather than take Weeks word for it like you guys do on everything, I simply asked if anyone has any actual supporting documentation for Weeks claims about the purchase. By your post it seems you don't, but instead cite Weeks as if Weeks obviously had all his ducks in a row.
David,
Reading page 42 again, it is a second mention that Hopkins allowed play on the fringe of his estate. I doubt Weeks quoting whoever would get it wrong twice.
What are you talking about? I am not aware of and Weeks "quote" about the 51 acre purchase. There is no such quote on page 42, and no such quote on page 32, where Hopkins property was also mentioned.
Why claim he is quoting when he isn't? It seems you are trying to imply he must have a firm basis for what he wrote when he gives no such indication.
At the same time, it sounds like the original course was just barely on Hopkins land, not all the way out to where four and five sit now.
It is pretty apparent that Weeks was guessing when it came to the original nine holes, because says as much: "The actual layout is a matter of speculation . . .." He is also flat out wrong in his description of the holes. That article I posted lists the names of the original holes, and they do not jibe with Weeks description. Weeks has the current 8th as the second hole, but the second hole was called "Miles River" yet the current 8th was no where near miles river or the hole later called Miles River. Weeks described the 3rd-6th as bullrushes, alps, valley and pond, but these were likely the 6th through 9th holes. In other words, he leaves out three or four holes, and includes one that may not even have been used! If he is secretly quoting someone like you claim, then I would question whether that someone knew what they were talking about either.
In fact, it seems that Weeks is simply reciting the first six holes of the supposed long nine from Bush's account, changing the yardage on the first hole to further reflect Bush's comments!
But Bush's account of the supposed long nine is also questionable. As has already been discussed and his own comments indicate, his account was written well after the formation of the course, and when one compares Bush's account to those written closer to the time in question, inconsistencies become apparent. For example, here is the description of that initial nine according to George Sargent, from the May 1898 edition of The Golfer:
The golf course of the Myopia Hunt Club, on which the open championship of 1898 will be played, is said to be the longest nine-holevcourse in the country. Experts have pronounced the links the best natural golf grounds in America. The playing length of the grounds is 2865 yards. The first tee is on the side of a hill, from which the player drives over a road, a built-up bunker into a wide field, where good lies are almost certain. A brassy shot over a bunker, and a short approach will bring one to the green, which is in a hollow. The distance is 380 yards, and the bogey is four.
From the second tee the drive is up a slight elevation and alter a brassy shot over the brow of the hill a full iron shot brings one to the green, situated on a knoll. ]oe Lloyd, the open champion, has reached the end of the green on his second shot and made the hole in four, although from the tee to the hole is 425 yards.
One short hole—100 yards—is found on the course, but it is a clever one, although it has been done several times in two strokes. The tee is built up in the middle of a swamp. making a topped ball cost dearly, and the hole is in a depression beyond the swamp, paying a premium for accurate play.
"The Alps," as hole number four is called, is one of the best holes of any course in the country, being much like "the Maiden" on the course in Sandwich, England. The distance is 250 yards and two rolling hills are to be covered. Some of the longest rivers my carry a ball over both hills and make the hole in two, but a short drive will drop in a hollow between the hills, necessitating an iron play to the green, which is then out of sight beyond the second hill.
Number five, "the Valley" hole, is 300 yards, and the drive is down a narrow valley, from a tee on a high elevation. With a cleek shot the player may come to the green, which is a wide one, and by careful play hole out in three, although four is creditable play. The hole must be played with good direction, as there is a high hill on the right and a marsh on the left.
Among the traditions of the Myopia Hunt Club, one of the most highly-prized relates to the sixth, or "Pond" hole. The tee is at the edge of the pond, over which the player drives. The distance is 250 yards and the green is on a hill beyond the pond. The hole has been done in three, a long drive carrying the ball to the edge of the green, but most players drive over the pond with a cleek, and use an iron to the green. Sometimes, as in the tradition mentioned, the ball goes into the pond, followed by unsmothered curses. History relates that in the early clays of Myopia golf, one enthusiastic tyro drove three golf balls into the pond and then sent his caddie to the clubhouse for a fresh supply. Opening the box brought by the caddie he drove the whole dozen in succession into the untroubled pond, and then returned to the clubhouse, his feelings relieved and the third commandment unbroken.
"The Orient," as the seventh hole is called, is 400 yards and has been done in three strokes. A well-placed bunker calls lor a good second shot, and after this is passed the approach to the green is easy.
Hole eight is the longest in the course.
510 yards, and it takes three full shots to come up to the green. A bunker penalizes a topped ball from the tee, and a high bunker and cop will punish a short second stroke. Twice this hole has been done in four strokes but most players are satisfied with a five on the card.
At the ninth hole, which is 250 yards a bunker entraps any badly driven ball. As the drive is downhill there is a long roll, and several times, aided by the wind, the hole has been done in three, the drive being to the edge of the green.[/i]
Comparing this description to the Bush description, a number of the distances are off, most notably, Bush described the fifth hole (now the twelfth) as 400 yards, while Sargent claims it was 300 yards. Others are off by 20 to 40 yards, and a number of prominent features mentioned by Bush aren't by Sargent.
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Back to the 51 acres. Measure it yourself. Take a look at that map on page 43 and compare it to an aerial (you can still see some of the fence lines, such as a corner near the fourth green and
measure it yourself. Admittedly, it is a bit tough to do given the vague course of the river, but so far as I can tell it is not even close to 51 acres.
But measure it yourself. And then measure the property on the other side of the clubhouse where most of the expansion took place, and tell me which one seems to be 51 acres.
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Mike Cirba,
Apparently you (and your sleazy mentor who is obviously chirping in your ear) don't have the foggiest idea of what it means to provide proper sources to support one's claims. Generally referring to a library and some guy who was a member doesn't cut it. Not even close. For you to pretend that it does exposes you as either incredibly naive or dishonest.
You do know who George Sargent was, don't you? Well he lists the course at quite a lot longer than Mays did about 70 years later.
The right thing for you to do is admit that you really don't know how long the course was -- I'll gladly admit this myself. But surely you will go on grasping to something someone wrote 70 years later because it supports your point. Bush league.