[Bill_McBride]

Not sure you can say the 18th hole setup was worthwhile.  Everybody putted from approximately the same place.  Driver to 50-60 yards, little wedge 30 feet behind the hole, and nobody made the putt.  Everybody made 4.

John, don't you think they'd have done better hitting a 250 yard shot and then a full sand wedge or lob wedge?  Those 60 yard shots are murder, and that was proved over and over again.  That was a tricky bit of Mike Davis planning there, similar to #14's pin.  Good stuff I thought.

Bill:

Do you think two holes on the back nine, including the finisher, that require:

-- a downhill wedge shot;

and

-- a 6-iron/9-iron strategy

are worthy of the final round of the US Open?

Yes.  That is as much a test of ball striking and course management skills as hitting long irons into rough surrounded concrete greens, the usual US Open exam.  I think the US Open has been much more fun to watch the last few years, starting at Oakmont, because of this change in philosophy.

Those delicate shots require as much nerve as the other parts of the repertoire. 
And everybody has to be able to hit them.

Bill:

I can't imagine the players in this year's Open thought the 14th hole wedge shot was as difficult as the shots you see at the 10th at WFoot, or the 8th at Oakmont. And I'd believe exactly no one who says the 18th at the Black is a similar test, in the US Open, as either the 18th at Oakmont or WFoot.

I believe the US Open is the one tournament a year that should be unrelenting. Not the Masters, not the British Open, not the PGA, not even the Players at TPC. Just one -- this one. And it wasn't -- not with downhill wedge shots and a 6-iron/9-iron closer.

Au contraire with regard to the Players for me.........#11's short par 5 and #17 short par 3 are what make that tournament so much fun.  And #3 and #12 at the Masters aren't long shots, just challenging.

The current set up ideas have rejuvenated the Open, IMHO.  We will just have to agree to disagree - if that's agreeable.   

[Phil McDade]

Bill:

I agree with TPC -- I've come some how to actually see the merits of that course, even the 17th, because it's such an interesting mix of holes and strategies required.

I think the US Open should be unrelenting in its pursuit of testing these players. And for the record, I don't necessarily oppose where they put the pin on 14 -- just where they put it for the final round. That's a large green, with what looks like a terrific bunker with several tongues where you could place a pin near. I wish the USGA had asked players -- again, in the final round -- to play a really demanding shot in order to have a good shot at birdie. A somewhat downhill sand wedge on the back nine strikes me as a relief for these guys.

The 18th is altogether something else. I'm not sure how you give that hole the kind of interest that I think 18th holes in the US Open ought to have.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill:

I agree with TPC -- I've come some how to actually see the merits of that course, even the 17th, because it's such an interesting mix of holes and strategies required.

I think the US Open should be unrelenting in its pursuit of testing these players. And for the record, I don't necessarily oppose where they put the pin on 14 -- just where they put it for the final round. That's a large green, with what looks like a terrific bunker with several tongues where you could place a pin near. I wish the USGA had asked players -- again, in the final round -- to play a really demanding shot in order to have a good shot at birdie. A somewhat downhill sand wedge on the back nine strikes me as a relief for these guys.

The 18th is altogether something else. I'm not sure how you give that hole the kind of interest that I think 18th holes in the US Open ought to have.

The 18th was unyielding when a birdie was required.  I wasn't thrilled with that set up but it did its job.

On to Turnberry! 

[John Kirk]

Interesting that nobody tried to hit a 250-260 yard tee shot, leaving the required 85-95 yards for a full wedge on #18.  Perhaps the landing area was just too narrow to risk it.

So I disagree with Bill.  It didn't work.  Everybody made 4 by two putting from 30 feet behind the hole.

[Phil McDade]

John:

There has been some speculation that that particular landing area -- 85-95 yards out -- was still awfully wet, as that part of the fairway is apparently one of the lower spots on the course. Davis talked about the challenge of draining the 18th fairway on Thursday -- said overall the course drained exceptionally well, but that narrow fairway area was a problem with all the rain.

[George Pazin]

I think the US Open should be unrelenting in its pursuit of testing these players. And for the record, I don't necessarily oppose where they put the pin on 14 -- just where they put it for the final round. That's a large green, with what looks like a terrific bunker with several tongues where you could place a pin near. I wish the USGA had asked players -- again, in the final round -- to play a really demanding shot in order to have a good shot at birdie. A somewhat downhill sand wedge on the back nine strikes me as a relief for these guys.

I believe the USGA has indicated that any day at the Open, there are 6 "easy" hole locations, 6 "moderate" and 6 "tough" (all are tough for me, hence the ""). Seems like maybe you are just picking out one of the easy ones - they can't have all 18 on Sunday, that would be silly.

[George Pazin]

Everyone seems to think these guys are infallible with their irons, particularly wedges. Why didn't we see more short putts on 18? Seems like maybe a half wedge to an elevated green is a good challenge for the big boys.

[Sean Leary]

Everyone seems to think these guys are infallible with their irons, particularly wedges. Why didn't we see more short putts on 18? Seems like maybe a half wedge to an elevated green is a good challenge for the big boys.

Agreed. A 40 yard chip to an elevated green is out of their comfort zone I think. Especially downwind.

I don't understand why they didn't go up one more teebox. If you are going to move it up, move it WAY up.

[Phil_the_Author]

Sean, they went up to the front of the front tee box...

[Bill_McBride]

Interesting that nobody tried to hit a 250-260 yard tee shot, leaving the required 85-95 yards for a full wedge on #18.  Perhaps the landing area was just too narrow to risk it.

So I disagree with Bill.  It didn't work.  Everybody made 4 by two putting from 30 feet behind the hole.

Well that was the point I tried to make above (post #95), only hitting a drive into that tight area between the bunkers could earn a birdie.  Nobody had the cojones to try.  I thought that made it a pretty creative set up of distance and pin location.

[Sean Leary]

Sean, they went up to the front of the front tee box...

Thanks Phil,

It sure looked like there was one more tee box ahead of the one they were on. Somebody else on one of these threads mentioned it as well.

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