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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Merion - Just the Course
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2008, 06:14:01 PM »
Sean,

     What is there about Ballybunion that puts it so high in your view? BTW it is my favorite Irish course. For me, the routing is magical.


   This is what I don't see at Merion-- a routing that knocks my socks off. The two par fives over by #4 creates a lack of variety for me for the rest of the course. Also, there is just too much back and forth for my taste.  The section from #6 through #13 is too long a stretch of less than terrific holes for me with sevearl short par fours in a short time.. My objections are about Merion not being at the very highest level.


 

  There can't be so many blemishes for the very best courses.



     How much do the two plaques add to the aura of Merion ?

Mayday

I am not sure which holes are blemishes.  The variety of the course is tremendous and hard to fathom given how many short holes there are, but all are very different.  I will grant you that the par 5s are not stellar, but they aren't far off being very good and the archie had th egood sense to limit the number to 2. 

You are confusing me with the routing comments.  Ballybunion has a very routine front 6 routing.  It marches out 6 holes with a few cut backs.  It only gets interesting because of the topography and how you get a few holes on the sea - knowing you will return. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mike_Cirba

Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2008, 07:01:14 PM »
Sean,

Thanks for the wonderful pics and I'm glad you had a great time visiting.

re: your Merion East pics...It might help explain why some of us are so passionate about it. 

Andy Troeger

Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2008, 07:12:33 PM »
Sean,
Thanks for posting, having only seen scattered photos from Merion prior it is neat to see more details on some of the oft discussed holes. I can see why it is highly regarded!

Brett Morris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2008, 07:18:51 PM »
Stunning, thanks for the photos Sean.

I'm in the group who have read so much about it, but haven't seen it.  Easy to see why there are people around so passionate about the place.

Where does the name 'Merion' evolve from?  Any meaning?  I must admit, I haven't read the essay or all of the posts, so apologies if it is in there somewhere.

Mike Sweeney

Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2008, 07:34:56 PM »

Where does the name 'Merion' evolve from?  Any meaning?  I must admit, I haven't read the essay or all of the posts, so apologies if it is in there somewhere.

It is the name of a nearby town, but it appears that Merion Cricket never was located in Merion:

http://www.merioncricket.com/default.aspx?p=GenericModuleDefault&NoModResize=1&NoNav=1&ShowFooter=False&ModID=31077&modtype=Briefnbsp;Historynbsp;ofnbsp;thenbsp;Merionnbsp;Cricketnbsp;Club&sl=1&vnf=0&ssid=0&dpageid=201421

Gerry B

Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2008, 07:48:39 PM »
tremendous photos of one of my 5 favorite courses on the planet

Gerry B

Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2008, 07:55:07 PM »
re: the name / trivia

Kobe Bryant attended Lower Merion High School.


Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2008, 09:02:16 PM »
Sean,

Just outstanding photos of outstanding holes.  I think thats the best pic I've seen of 16 and how the quarry sits in relation to that hole...epic stuff.

CJ Carder

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2008, 09:48:15 PM »
Those pics are fantastic.  Having only ever seen the course during the US Am a few years ago, these pictures are a great window into the course.  I've been told by several people that Merion isn't all it's cracked up to be, but I certainly don't understand that viewpoint having seen these pictures.  Thanks Sean!

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2008, 10:20:40 PM »
For those who would like to see Merion up close and personal, plan a visit to the 2009 Walker Cup matches in September.

"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2008, 02:00:47 AM »
Thanks all.  I wish my camera was better so I could get some of the green detail, ah well.  They are a really cool set of greens that work beautifully with the land.  Theres not a patch of crazy to be found. 

Wayne - does anybody play up the fairway of #16 to the 15th tee?

Ciao 
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

wsmorrison

Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2008, 07:48:31 AM »
Sean,

Some of the big drivers may land the ball up the slope towards the 15th tee, the so-called Ladies Aid (many cannot cross the quarry in one shot).  While it leaves a blind shot to the green, it isn't unreasonable since it is a shorter shot.  Most long hitters simply take 3 wood and leave themselves a 6 to 8 iron in, depending upon the wind.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2008, 08:36:07 AM »
For those who would like to see Merion up close and personal, plan a visit to the 2009 Walker Cup matches in September.

If you're in the area, a nice walk on Golf House road gives you a wonderful view of 1, 14, 15, and 16.  And a drive down Ardmore gets you nice views of 2, 10, 12, and 13.

Jim Nugent

Re: Merion - Just the Course
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2008, 09:06:47 AM »

   This is what I don't see at Merion-- a routing that knocks my socks off. The two par fives over by #4 creates a lack of variety for me for the rest of the course. Also, there is just too much back and forth for my taste.  The section from #6 through #13 is too long a stretch of less than terrific holes for me with sevearl short par fours in a short time.. My objections are about Merion not being at the very highest level.

There can't be so many blemishes for the very best courses.


Mike, which course do you think is better: Merion East or Rolling Green?

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2008, 09:07:56 AM »
 Merion East is better, but not by much. RG is not in the top ten ,so I don't hold it to as high a standard. For comparison purposes I enjoy NGLA more than Merion and could place Plainfield at its level as well.. I think the thing that gives Merion the edge is the complexity of the greens. But, I think the routing is better at RG. It has a better variety throughout. The aura of Merion seems to overwhelm people.

    Lahinch, Ballybunion, Royal County Down, and Portrush would all exceed it.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 09:13:52 AM by michael_malone »
AKA Mayday

Dan Boerger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2008, 09:19:19 AM »
Obviously, to each their own, but I think #6 - #13 offer excellent variety ...  #6 is a fantastic hole with a green site that is ideally suited for a longer iron in, which contrasts well with #7 and #8, that require shorter shot precision. #9 is a brutal one shot downhiller and #10 along with #13 is the last chance at a birdie for  many a golfer. #11 is mythic (allow an ad guy some hyperbole!) and #12  (along with #15) is one of the great driving holes at Merion.

Does anyone think the green at #12 will be too severe for US OPEN speed?
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2008, 09:33:53 AM »
Dan - it's not too severe if you play the approach correctly.

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2008, 09:34:59 AM »
For those who would like to see Merion up close and personal, plan a visit to the 2009 Walker Cup matches in September.



Thanks for the info, Steve.  A trip may have to be planned next September.  The place looks simply amazing.  I had a friend play out there last year and absolutely raved about the club.  What a special club indeed.

Scott
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Doug Ralston

Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2008, 09:36:32 AM »
What? What? What?

So it is only MODERN architects who are EVIL if they have trees in play? Is this golfclubatlas.com or not? Why are we not hearing tirades for the purging in 'The Great Merion Forest'? Burn 'em!

LOL!

I have seen Merion on TV, and now all these great pix here. I will never play it, but I can certainly enjoy it.

But where are the treesmashers here?  :D :D

Doug

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2008, 10:39:25 AM »

But where are the treesmashers here?  :D :D

Doug

Doug:

In all sincerity, I don't see that many trees depicted in Sean's photos that look like they might interfere with play (with the admittedly huge caveat that my reading, like yours, is based solely on Sean's viewpoint and camera angles and whatnot...) The trees seem to be much less in play than the overgrowth seen on the Lulu thread.

For instance:

-- On the fairway of the 2nd, there is a large tree on the left side of the fairway, in the rough between the 2nd and 5th fairways, that fronts a bunker by -- guessing here -- 50 yards? I don't think that bunker is reachable from the tee, but I could be wrong. I'm not sure cutting it down would do that much to improve either the 2nd or the 5th (the bunker to the left of the large tree on the right side of the 5th fairway is in play off the 5th tee, I believe.)

-- I suppose one could argue the tree or tree branches encroaching from the right side on the approach to the 7th could be cut; the angle of the photo suggests those branches could prevent a ball from going into the bunker just below (which, does not look like a fun bunker). But, again, hard to tell from the angle.

-- I do wonder about the chute effect of the 10th tee shot, which is a very short, dogleg hole (315?ish) and presumably could be driven by today's players. Perhaps the chute maintains the integrity of how Wilson and Co. wanted the hole to be played.

-- I actually really like that big old tree sitting right behind the green at 13 (the basket flag is right in the middle of the trunk). It's often said trees help frame shots; just a guess here, but I think that tree adds to the visual deception of the hole, because I think it's further behind the green than what appears in the photo. That big lip on the fronting bunker, it seems, can partially hide many a pin position, and the threat of hitting what looks like a close tree long would seem to wreak havoc on a golfer's thoughts on the tee. Is 13 regularly included among the list of great short par 3s in the country? It surely ought to be.

-- I also like the stubby little tree just past the fairway bunker on 16. Does it come into play? I'm guessing it does, for those wanting to cut the corner. But maybe the preferred way to play the hole is just short of where the fairway makes that abrupt right turn up the hill.

Looking at the (very good) Google aerial of Merion East, I'm struck by how tightly confined the course is, fitted within two corridors of what is essentially a backward "L." It seems logical on a course in a residential setting to have many trees on the perimeter of the course (I sort of hope Lederach grows a few, to avoid the numerous views into people's living rooms from that course). But the aerial shows modest numbers of trees in the interior of Merion, particularly for a course with what appears to be playing corridors quite close to one another.


Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2008, 10:54:55 AM »
What? What? What?

So it is only MODERN architects who are EVIL if they have trees in play? Is this golfclubatlas.com or not? Why are we not hearing tirades for the purging in 'The Great Merion Forest'? Burn 'em!

LOL!

I have seen Merion on TV, and now all these great pix here. I will never play it, but I can certainly enjoy it.

But where are the treesmashers here?  :D :D

Doug

Doug

Its another tribute to this clever design that trees aren't "necessary" for safety reasons.  Sure, I would like to see some trees come out, but in truth, trees are not really an issue.  For instance, I could see more trees come out of one hole at Rolling Green or LuLu (though I am told that loads have come out and more are planned) than the entire Merion course.  Again, I can't see how folks can fail to be impressed the course.  I am amazed at how it all works for 6100 yards.  The blend of elements is near on perfect. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2008, 11:06:09 AM »
 Only the most severely mishit shots get punished by trees at Merion. I know because I have done it. Trees aren't an issue there. I love the look of some of their evergreens. I think Wayne knows the story there. As I look at Sean's photos I see one at the back of #4.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 11:08:27 AM by michael_malone »
AKA Mayday

Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2008, 07:52:57 PM »
Looking at these wonderful photos reminds me:

I cannot conceive how the Merion property and surrounds will support the gargantuan infrastructure now required by a US Open.

WW

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2008, 03:40:32 AM »
Looking at these wonderful photos reminds me:

I cannot conceive how the Merion property and surrounds will support the gargantuan infrastructure now required by a US Open.

WW

WW

I don't have a clue how Merion is going to pull off the space aspects of an Open, but I am sure they will figure something out!  Perhaps Wayne can help out in explaining some of the logistics for parking, spectators and consumer/corporate tents.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mike Sweeney

Re: Merion - Just the Course - all 18
« Reply #49 on: May 15, 2008, 05:46:46 AM »
For the 1981 Open, spectators parked at Villanova football stadium and took the P&W train right to the club. It was simple. Since Villanova is in summer session, there was plenty of parking, but they may need more parking space now. The P&W must have other parking along the route to Merion including 69th Street Terminal in Philly, and I am sure they will have bus parking too.

The practice range is over on The West and they shuttle players back and forth. Ardmore Avenue is shut down.

The big question is all the corporate tents that are now probably 10 times as big as 1981. I believe the East range will extend over to Haverford College via a bridge that will be built between the two similar to the bridge over the highway between Shinnecock and Southampton College. I am guessing that owners (some who are members) will rent out their homes on Club House Road along 14 and 15. I am also guessing they will have some tents on The West too.

The USGA is probably hoping that the Philly crowd stays in the tents and parties, because the hard part will be getting people on and around the course, especially when you have the wave following Tiger. The course is stretched to the max and there are a number of choke points starting with the cross over 1 from 13 to 14 and also over 3 tee from 5 to 6.

Say what you will about the USGA, but they are Kings of Logistics and I am guessing that it will run pretty smoothly and they will have the Merchandise Tent strategically placed.  :D

A friend of mine who is a member came up to the last Open at Winged Foot, and he recognized that they would probably lose The West for at least a year between set-up and repair. The days of the old private clubs for The US Open is probably fading.

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