[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Cirba,

Are you giving Applebrook an exemption ?

[Mike_Cirba]

Patrick;

No way!  I mentioned it above, if not by name.  It IS the "local course" that I cited.

If I could change anything about Applebrook, I'd start there.

[Mike Hendren]

David,

I play more like "Tigress" Woods. I obviously have never noticed the back tee on no. 10.  I'd need a 3-iron with a stiff breeze at my back to carry 205. You, sir, are Tiger Woods.

Mike

[WPM]

If a waterfall is there to simply be eye-candy, its pointless.  Golf courses aren't something to look at, they're something to be played.  I am a public golfer, so time after time I get stuck with guys who are saying, "This is my favorite hole on the course, look at how beautiful it is".  It bugs me so much.  One exception is if its a natural waterfall.

[Andy Hodson]

WPM

I hope you are not referring to Slag's waterfall.

[WPM]

Nope, Im not

[carmelkyd]

The question of nature versus nurture will always haunt us.  What's so bad with a man-made waterfall if done well.  Heck, the good Lord didn't plant all those azeleas around the greens at Augusta, did he?

Having said that, give me natural beauty over the man's creations.  But if a golf course or golf hole has nothing natural beautiful about it, why not enhance it a bit with some trees, some flowers, or even somthing like a stream?

[Slag_Bandoon]

 Constructed waterfalls set a jumbled precedent.  If I patronize this golf course I am supporting it's gook.  If $1 of my greens fee goes to the upkeep of it, I don't want it there and I probably will not choose to play there.
   If thought is placed upon a waterfalls construction, then thought is diverted from the actual playing fields.  I live in Mudville, Oregon though so maybe in West Texas or Palm Springs it would be more appreciated.

  If you'll excuse me I've got to show the wifey the "Eye candy".

[R.S._Barker]

Slag,

That made my night..lmao.

My opinion on waterfalls is simple :

IF I'm playing the course, round the bend and hear water running in the distance and see a waterfall, I'm happy. AS LONG as it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb.

There is a course in Pennsylvania ( don't remember the name at the moment ) that has a lovely waterfall that is in play. Sadly though, the course is so lacking in water anywhere else and has a terrible layout, in this case it looks contrived and forced...not to mention makes me think of Slag's tree.

Yes, if I ever got the chance to play Shadow Creek ( fat chance ) I'd probably be so darn happy just to see the course, that I'd take a dive in the water to refresh myself...and pay the 1000 dollar fine to boot..

Either way, it's all good.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Ran, Please delete, DELETE!!!!!!

David, I dare you to point out one thing for me in Some Essays On Golf Architecture that talks of waterfalls or any reason to celebrate them when it comes to golf.

I have to ask, was this topic a plot by you and Tom Huckaby to get me to start posting 24/7 again?

[R.S._Barker]

Tommy,

I think their just trying to ruffle your feathers...

Although after reading your post, I actually agree with you about the " Lack of waterfall essays "..although I bet some of the real life architects would chime in to defend their true purpose.

Take care,

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I forgot to mention, (Or in this case re-mention)

I hate them, and I'm sorry I ever came up with the idea of building one of them on a golf course....Desmond Muirhead, who some say was the first to construct a fake water presentation on a golf course at Soboba Springs in San Jacinto, California. (Heaven for you Scientologists out there)

[R.S._Barker]

Tommy,

I may be totally wrong here - and if I am, please correct me...but wasn't Desmond the same Architect that did the funky course with the strangely shaped bunkers and the wierd looking green designs ?.

There were a couple threads a while back that showed a green surrounded by water with lotus flower bunkers and an oddly shaped green - all surrounded by Railroad ties.

Not that that takes anything away from your point, as he's an architect, and I'm not..

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Yes, Desmond was a total fruitcake, but he was a very knowledgable fruitcake.

Yes, some of his original works were pretty severe for even the modernist. But one thing that should be celebrated is the fact that as an artist Desmond did it his way, and he managed to build not just one, but many courses that had the symbolism theme in tow.

Think about it for a second....Why would I, a purist even celebrate this man? Please do know, he was greatly misinterpreted in his lifetime, and he enjoyed that to some degree.

He is also the Man that designed Muirfield Village

[A_Clay_Man]

Correct me if I'm wrong, too.

Wasn't it the break-up of his partnership with Jack at Muirfield that led him to build the wild stuff? Sort of thumbing his nose at the inevitable lack of taste and quality that the future golfer and golf course owner foreshadowed?

[David Wigler]

Tommy,

Clearly part of this thread was to tweak Gib, Shooter and Yourself but you know I like Waterfalls.  Of course Harry Colt never made a waterfall - he couldn't.  The equipment necessary did not exist.  Let me ask you an honest question (And Gib, feel free to jump in) - Would Raynor have added a Waterfall to Lido if he could have?  For that matter, would Alison at Timber Point?  I think they might have.  

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