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Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Spyglass Hill......
« on: August 06, 2002, 06:55:17 PM »
A few days ago America's favorite guest got waxed by a young student at the University of California at Monterey Bay. The young man has qualified for the Northern California Amateur and has not had the opportunity to play a practice round on the course. I have arranged for us to play at 9.20 am tomorrow.

From what I hear he is a clone of Tiger Woods, hits the ball enormous distances and has a game to match.
For those of you familiar with the course I thought I would chronicle his shots in regard to club selection and yardages. If you have any other queries let me know. It could be an interesting round.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

John_D._Bernhardt

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2002, 07:41:15 PM »
Well Spyglass will separate the real deal from the pretenders. It is a mans course much like Carnoustee.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2002, 08:00:21 PM »
John:

I can't wait to see how far he hits it. I have seen the first green reached in two shots but once and that was by big George Bayer with a persimmon wood club and a not very hot ball. I am not sure how many of the faithfull realize it,  but the course record for the first couple of years after the course opened was a 70, by the then amateur Forrest Fezzler.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

redanman

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2002, 04:41:12 AM »
A clone of Tiger Woods.  Isn't science wonderful?  

With what COR?

Actually, we should all wish that Ernie Els finds his brain some day and stops thinking like a 5 handicapper in a club tone-a-mint.  8)

To what I though was the real topic, silly me........
As for Spyglass, I have always found Spyglass to be a bit of a poster boy for fine places you can play.  (See another thread)  The pace of play is always better than at Pebble and it is more ?affordable? (Did I just type that?!?)

Fine fine and challenging, a difficult test of golf, but isn't it a bit schizophrenic?  If the scenery, wind and sea spray weren't there for 2-5, wouldn't  we be dealing with just one of the multitude of "Fazio's 200 top 20 courses"? (For those with no clues whatsoever, I do know it is not a Fazio course, but a template for what he tries to build and never reaches too terribly often)

Is that stretch of holes enough to thrust this course to number ten or so of Golfweek's modern list? I've never seen that it is, silly me.  I've been around Spyglass at least 20 times, so it is not a casual comment from nowheresville, just a hope for discussion.  I've always found those holes "cute" and leaving me wanting.  Also, it was probably a routing mistake to not use the land late in the round.

Love to hear intelligent comments and discussion.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

brad_miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2002, 06:45:39 AM »
Bill, last time I played SG, we stopped after #6, it was a twighlight rate and the first 6 holes took 2 hours. Felt I had played the best of what it offered.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

John Bernhardt

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2002, 07:14:40 AM »
Bob, Big George Bayer was one of the great power golfers of his time. It is hard to believe how hard it is to get home in two on a down hill hole. I am looking forward to how his game holds up on those punishing par 4's there.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2002, 07:48:24 AM »
Most should know that the difficulty in scoring on "The Glass" is Putting. Having the long ball is certainly an advantage but not on that many holes.

#1- too long and your just as screwed as too left. Holding the green in two is almost impossible since it cants away from the player.

#2 (One of lifes greatest holes) Length also not needed unless you can talk him into going for the geen from the tee. :-X

#4- same as #2 length has little advantage.

#6- the first hole back up the hill into the parkland. Big Drive big advantage. Tricky, well sloped green from back to front.

#7- Short par 5 length is a plus.

#8- World class par 4 huge tee ball may not be an adavntage because the green is so sloped towards the player that spin is a bad thing.

#9 Big ball big help. The most impressive club selection was from a brit (non pro) from the left rough at 165. He hit nine iron pin high to mid back.

#10- tee ball placement takes precedence over length, unless he can bomb it over all the trees. very risky

#11 short dogleg par 5 where too much length without shot shape, bad. reachable in two with long iron by most of the big boys.

#13- Length good
#14- ditto #13
#16- length is less important
#17- placement key, green slope severe.
#18- long drive is a somewhat of advandage but runs the risk of a downhill lie to an uphill green, if smacked too far.

Using a match play scenario, length wins, up 3. Which is pretty close if you think about it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Matt_Ward

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2002, 09:27:01 AM »
redanman:

I too have played Spyglass a fair amount of time (8 times covering a period of 20 years).

Clearly, the gist of the course comes very early in the round. I'm alao a big fan of the 4th hole -- superb mid-length par-4.

Spyglass follows the Trent Jones model of hard par / easy bogey on a number of holes. You also have to hit irons close on a number of holes in order to have reasonable birdie putts -- not a big fan of the super large greens with a number of contour movements.

I don't see the course as bad as some have pointed out but given the sheer depth of quality public courses in the USA today I see Spyglass Hill in a much lower position.

The routing issue is an interesting one. Too bad the ending holes could not have been situated with the land that's exposed to the ocean view. That would have been glorious!

In my mind, Spyglass fits the mold of tough course but one lacking in elegance and style.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2002, 09:59:49 AM »
Matt -

I think you stated it nicely ... "tough course but one lacking elegance and style" ...

The early complaints from Spyglass were for the inland holes and how the greens did not accept slightly offline shots well (RTJ Sr.) with greens slightly elevated.

When playing the Glass, I always felt pressure to drive the ball well (with length) and hit good solid long irons.  If you didn't hit the ball well, it was a long day with very little chance to scramble for a decent round.

In that regard, I think it would make a good US Open course.  It could be lengthened quite a bit if needed but the USGA would leave the water on the fairways, it would play with no roll.  

Having played Olympic Lake and Pinehurst #2, the USGA does a good job of making US Open course just like your comment "tough but lacking elegance and style".  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"... and I liked the guy ..."

tmccarro

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2002, 11:21:26 AM »
Was out there this past March...Loved Spyglass...would have loved to play it on the type of day we played Pebble..not a cloud in sight and nary a breeze...unfortunately it rained buckets from the moment we stepped on the 1st tee till the moment we putted out on 18.  They really should have closed the course..as it was we had to squeegie the last 14 greens just to putt.  They made it up to us tho for when the rain stopped and the sun came out that afternoon they let us back out for free.  

Besides a sandy/birdie on #1 the thing I remember most about the course is how much of the crap (rough) whats it called that my father kept finding...man is that stuff NASTY!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2002, 12:12:58 PM »
It sounds like Iceplant tmcarro, if it was the thick stuff all over the first 5?

Interesting phenom is that most of the average golfers prefer Spyglass to the other courses. I attribute it to the final 13 holes and the fact that when you're up in the pine trees, you could be playing in almost any state in the country, which reminds them of thier home. And consequently it's thier favorite.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Darin

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2002, 12:16:07 PM »
Re: the Tiger clone...he is a friend of mine and I played with him on the golf team at Cal State Monterey Bay.  His name is Sean Shepard, and the guy can flat play.  I think he caddies out at Cypress right now.  When you play Bayonet and Blackhorse 3-4 times a week, you might get pretty good if you aren't careful.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2002, 12:25:31 PM »
Uh oh... I certainly have put the pressure on this very likeable, fine young man who yes, waxed me 3 & 2 whilst giving me four shots two Saturdays ago... I will indeed be curious to see Mr. Huntley's report.  I have played with some big hitters before but this kid, well... I'm gonna get myself in even more trouble if he doesn't come through tomorrow so I'll pipe down.  What impressed me more than his distance in any case was his even-keel demeanor (rare for a competitive player just 20), his overall fine game, and indeed his physical resemblance to Tiger.  To his credit though when asked if he patterned himself after Tiger, he said no - his model is Payne Stewart!  

I'm thinking if the kid plays like he can then look out competitors... he won his qualifying group at Bayonet... the kid can play and many thanks to Mr. Huntley for taking him to the 'Glass for this practice round.  I don't often make these references but this kid deserves it.

TH

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2002, 12:40:36 PM »
Bob et al- Even more help, would be getting a good caddy for him in the competition. I don't know if he could afford it... but with the premium on putting, a local afficionado is highly advised. I would look for a gentleman named Al huffman.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2002, 12:43:13 PM »
Adam - good thought, but this is a college kid who caddies at Cypress himself so I'm sure he has that covered, either with a fellow Cypress caddie or something.  There's no way he can afford to pay a caddie, but I'm sure this kid will work something out.

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

tmccarro

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2002, 01:26:51 PM »
Yes thats what it was Iceplant...gawd is that stuff nasty...I would rather hit out of Carnustie rough than that crap!.. :)
Quote
It sounds like Iceplant tmcarro, if it was the thick stuff all over the first 5?

Interesting phenom is that most of the average golfers prefer Spyglass to the other courses. I attribute it to the final 13 holes and the fact that when you're up in the pine trees, you could be playing in almost any state in the country, which reminds them of thier home. And consequently it's thier favorite.


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

BV

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2002, 05:01:31 PM »

Quote
Re: the Tiger clone...he is a friend of mine and I played with him on the golf team at Cal State Monterey Bay.  His name is Sean Shepard, and the guy can flat play.  I think he caddies out at Cypress right now.  When you play Bayonet and Blackhorse 3-4 times a week, you might get pretty good if you aren't careful.


There's always been a lot of "The Next Nicklaus" , now I guess it's the "Tiger Clone", personally I really doubt it, sorry. I think Brad Klein is even better qualified to comment on how many of these "............" pan out.  I remember Aaron Baddely and a few others Howell,  Ty Tryon (was that his name?)being touted that way not too long ago and they're much further along than  "in college"-Cal State Monterrey Bay?.

God, look at Mickleson.  :o
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Andy Hodson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2002, 05:48:52 PM »
BV
Wait a minute. Give the kid a chance. And before you dump on Tryon remember he is 17. 17 and qualified for the PGA Tour. Not just a tour event. But the bygod, friggin, PGA Tour. By shooting something like 66 on his fifth and final round. Made it through all 3 rounds of qualifying too.

So all these kids need time. Just look at Justin Rose. Took him awhile to make a cut (like 21 times) but now has won 4 times this year.

(By the way...the kid I'm referring too is Senor Huntley)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2002, 08:23:45 PM »
Since BV brought up the subject,,, Did anyone see the piece on Dateline(i think?) about the guy who sold his family business so he could put it into his kid's golf game? When the reporter asked how much he had in him, he said "two mil". That's these guys chasing around the country for Monday qualifiers. ouch! :'(

I felt it was one of the saddest piece's I'd seen in a while.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2002, 06:39:45 AM »
Just to clarify, this kid hasn't done much competitively and I am CERTAINLY not touting him as the next anything.  The fact is, he's a damn good player (+1 index), he bears a striking physical resemblance to Tiger Woods, he's a good kid, and he certainly needed the break or he was gonna have to play Spyglass completely blind in a pretty big tourney for NorCal amateurs.  But that's it...

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2002, 07:27:45 AM »
We can now see "America's Guest" and "Master of Matrimonial Negotiations" (golf's own Walter Williams) in a new light.  The Huckster, who aw-shucks his way while lackadaisically chewing-up his gca.com opponents on the course, now reveals his compassionate side as a promoter of undeveloped, maybe underprivilidged, young talent.  Hell, he probably threw the match to build the kid's confidence.   I knew the Pope should have stopped in Pebble Beach to do his thing on Mr. Huntley before proceeding to Mexico.  He probably should have taken a side excursion to the Bay area as well.  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2002, 07:35:40 AM »
Ha!  Oh, I need to see the Pope for a lot of things (can we still buy absolutions?), but the beatifcation you imply sure as hell isn't one of them!  I just remembered too well too many college years of eating nothing but Top Ramen so I could save up to play one lousy round of golf.  This kid likely has way more money that I did - he does spend his spare time caddieing at Cypress after all and Lou, you know how much they get - but the 'Glass unfortunately gives no breaks for contestant practice rounds and my beloved NCGA is indeed lucky to get access for the tournament proper.  Thus I just felt it was the right thing to do to refer him to the TRULY SAINTLY Mr. Huntley.  The key though is the kid impressed with his demeanor and "niceness" more than his play... if he was a jerk, none of this would have happened, no matter how much he looked and played like Tiger!

BTW, this kid could have beaten me blindfold giving me 10 shots.  He toyed with me like a kitten with a ball of string.  It was indeed humbling... and in a strange way fun to watch.

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

BV

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2002, 10:05:24 AM »

Quote
Just to clarify, this kid hasn't done much competitively and I am CERTAINLY not touting him as the next anything.  The fact is, he's a damn good player (+1 index), he bears a striking physical resemblance to Tiger Woods, he's a good kid, and he certainly needed the break or he was gonna have to play Spyglass completely blind in a pretty big tourney for NorCal amateurs.  But that's it...

TH

TW is  approximately +8 or +9 under professional tone-a-mint conditions, not playing for $20 with college boys in front of nobody.  :o  For those that think I am too hard on El Tigre, here I am giving the dude his due.

Just for some perspective.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Spyglass Hill......
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2002, 10:18:59 AM »
OK BV, fair enough.  Just please do realize again that the physical resemblance to Tiger is really the only comparison I am making.

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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