Traverse City Golf

« **on:** June 21, 2002, 10:31:13 PM »

I'm a few days away from escaping the desert heat for some Northern Michigan golf and relaxation. I'm meeting up with fellow GCA'er Joe Hancock to play Pilgrims Run and the Kingsley Club, but I also plan on playing a few days with my father-in-law and I'm wondering if there are any hidden gems in the TC area. This is my first summer time trip to MI in some time and I know most of the well known courses. I'm curious if anyone would recommend any courses in the area that don't get the hype or spend the marketing dollars. Last time I played there (1994), I played a couple of narrow, tree lined courses that didn't excite me, but I know quite a few courses have been built since then. Thanks for any advice.

BTW, Joe, I saw your post about shooting 76 at POW, between jet lag, mosquitoes and mothers-in-law, I figure I'll need a couple a side

« **Reply #1 on:** June 21, 2002, 10:43:33 PM »

The obvious one for me is High Pointe, some great stuff out there. Two diverse nines, one open and one in the trees, some fabulous green complexes. I think it cost us all of $35.00 to play. A bargain.

« **Reply #2 on:** June 22, 2002, 01:10:54 AM »

There is a course up that way called Brigadoon. When I asked a local about it he replied, "we call it bring a dozen". Not a recommendation, but it was amusing at the time.

I would second Craig's recommendation of High Pointe. I would ask Mike D. for his recommendations or give Fred Muller a call at Crystal Downs and he certainly knows the area. Have a great trip and I look forward to seeing what you thought about Kingsley.

« **Reply #3 on:** June 22, 2002, 06:59:47 AM »

nothing new here.

high pointe would be a must. one of my all-time favorites. play 36 if you can. walking the front is easy; the back is a little more of a challenge. don't be long, right, or left on eleven.

to continue on the doak theme, i would recommend making the trip to the black forest course at wilderness valley. it is a little south gaylord, approximately an hour away. it can be a little severe at times, but a real treat both from a design standpoint, i.e. green complexes, as well as visually. one frustration for me is that i could not imagine walking the course due to the distance between tees as well as its proximity to the clubhouse. but other than that, i love the course.

i have not seen arcadia bluffs, but i hear it is a visually stunning course. the course is well documented on this website.

i would recommend staying away from the bear at the grand traverse resort. my curiousity got the best of me a couple of years ago and i played 36 there one weekend. my time would have been better spent sticking to high pointe.

hope you have a good time.

« **Reply #4 on:** June 22, 2002, 10:31:27 AM »

Don,
You'll love Pilgrim's Run. I played it about 2 years before it opened because I knew the Super/Designer, Kris Shuemaker. It's so good. Mike DeVries' greens and bunkers are the character to the golf course. Joe, I might be playing golf with Mike at Diamond Springs Monday. Diamond Springs was another collaberation by Kris and Mike. I've only heard good things. Mike talked a bit about it in his interview several months ago. Enjoy!!

« **Reply #5 on:** June 22, 2002, 11:10:28 AM »

Don, having seen a glimpse of your game (not much) but realizing your abilities and eye for design and knowledge of GCM, besides the ussual suspects named above, I would definitely go to Arcadia Bluffs about an hours drive from TC. I would hope that they give you some sort of reciprical or prof-courtesy to play CD. I'd put them in order of priority as CD, KC, AB, and HP. If you are so fortunate to play all of those, I don't know what else a fellow could possibly want for in life...

However, be advised it has been a scuzzy spring up hear, rain and soft conditions and turf growth out of this world. Soil is near field capacity everywhere. If it would stop raining for 2 weeks things wouldn't even firm up. Now it is muggy. I gotta believe that all of those courses mentioned that usually feature lovely fescue and native rough areas are just a tangle of lush and impossible conditions, but I could be wrong - I hope.

« **Reply #6 on:** June 22, 2002, 11:16:50 AM »

Don,

That settles it. I'm making arrangements for us to play Arcadia in the a.m., and Kingsley in the p.m. Anyone else up to the punishment better give me a call soon! We're shooting for July 2nd, as We've secured a playing slot at Kingsley already. RJ, what exactly is Don's game? He's begging for strokes due to bugs, jet lag and mothers-in-law. I guess that means my mother-in-law will die before he gets here, and the bugs will only bother him. If thats true, then I'll give him 3 a side! After what I threw at the boys yesterday, I may even...oh, never mind.

Charity doesn't become me,

Joe

« **Reply #7 on:** June 22, 2002, 11:21:37 AM »

Joe, once again I prove that "loose lips sink ships" or putts or something like that. :-/ You do seem like a very charitable guy Joe, and if you are at home, I think it would be very sporting of you to give poor "Cactus Don" - sheik of the desert winds - a few strokes just for the heat and humidity.

« **Reply #8 on:** June 22, 2002, 01:05:36 PM »

Don,
The Belvedere Club
Charlevoix,Michigan
Willie Watson,1917
Built with the knowlege that this would be his retirement home.An easy drive from Traverse City.Three holes are in George Thomas's book.Very friendly to outside play. A favorite of Tom Watson.Play the course and then get directions to Hemingway's father's summer home where the lad formed many of his ideas on outdoor life.

« **Reply #9 on:** June 22, 2002, 06:34:05 PM »

Don,

I've spent summers near TC forever, and lived here for the last 2 years, so I've played or seen most of the courses in the area. I'm not quite sure what your post is looking for. Pilgrim's Run is quite a hike from Traverse City, so if you're looking for "Northern and Western Michigan" golf, it's a pretty big selection. Others have touched on the area's top courses, which are also the area's top greens-fees (with the exception of High Pointe). If you're looking for lesser-known, but interesting designs, Belvedere is up there (I haven't personally played it, but have heard good things about its design). Bay Harbor gets a lot of press, but I can't imagine there's anything there that justifies a $250 greens fee - though I haven't yet had the inclination to put up the $250 to find out if I'm right. If you're looking for golf that costs less than a C-note per afternoon, the two Traverse area courses on which I play most of my golf are Mistwood (near Lake Anne), and Champion Hill (near Beulah). With Northern Michigan's summer nights, and twi-light rates at the courses, a 3:00 or 4:00 start should get you 36 holes at less than $1 per hole. One must-avoid is The Crown in Traverse City. I played it once, and got lost 3 times before finishing 18 holes (so the routing is a little akward). Tom Doak tells me that its construction was stalled when they discovered they were building one hole through someone's back yard. It's pretty easy to guess which hole this is, and moving the tee 50 yards up results in one of the worst 6-iron/wedge par 4's you'll ever play. It gets a lot of league play, and one of the local High Schools uses it as its home course, but it has to be one of the most confused designs I've ever seen.

« **Reply #10 on:** June 22, 2002, 07:21:33 PM »

Thanks for the tips,
The tip on Belvedere is exactly what I was looking for. I figured High Pointe would be mentioned, but I had read mixed reviews and I'm glad to see it was mentioned by a few folks. I'm sure we will end up there.

John,
We are flying in and out of Grand Rapids (sister lives there), but we will be spending most of our time in TC.

Joe,
Not impressed by my whining? OK, head to head it is. See you in a few days.

Thanks folks.

« **Reply #11 on:** June 22, 2002, 07:40:40 PM »

I played Belvedere and it is a blast, the greens are pretty fantastic stuff.

I would also chime in for Arcadia Bluffs.

Skip Bay Harbor though, you can play High Pointe, Arcadia and Belvedere for less than one round there.

« **Reply #12 on:** June 22, 2002, 08:12:56 PM »

Don,
I thought I would chime in as well, I could go on and on about Crystal and such but I think its all been stated. CD, KC, HP, AB would be my priority list, as I think thats what I hope to play when I'm up there visiting in early fall/late summer, but I may just spend the whole time playing CD, jeez don't get me started. To throw one out there that is truelly unique, I would have to say Frankfurt Golf Club, its only nine holes but it is one of the funkiest layouts I've played, I think I pulled driver all of once, but I love something truely different and this is certianly that. I honestly don't know who layed out the course architecturally but Mike Morris the outstanding superintendent was the super there prior to heading CD. Other than the obvious stated I don't know much else around there as I am a "Sconsin" boy who just got the pleasure of playing N. Mich while at MSU.
Regards
Kyle

« **Reply #13 on:** June 22, 2002, 08:23:50 PM »

Don,

Dan Lucas, super at Kingsley, also threw in Belvedere, so I'm thinking if worse came to worse, I could be talked into staying for another round on the morning of the 3rd.....ugh, what am i saying? My wife is used to me golfing, but this temptation is getting out of hand! Do you suppose a couple hundred and a day in TC shopping for her while we golf would help? On top of all this, another GCA'er is talking to me about going down the road to the opening of Crystal Springs on Monday......

Signed,

Doomed

« **Reply #14 on:** June 23, 2002, 06:47:34 AM »

Kyle,
What are the chances of Plattalia being open?

« **Reply #15 on:** June 23, 2002, 07:48:35 AM »

Joe,
Sounds like a plan to me. Everything comes with a price and mine was a night at the Grand Hotel, your getting off cheap for a couple of hundred at the TC mall

Seriously, Belvedere sounds like a must see, lets do it!

« **Reply #16 on:** June 23, 2002, 10:19:56 AM »

Don,

Sorry I cannot join you.

Skip High Pointe. It is only loved by those who say anything Doak is great for fear of offending him or those who remember the course many years ago. There is a reason that Digest does not put it in the top twenty-five in Michigan and that it has disappeared from all rankings. I have gone through this rant before. The course today is slightly better than mediocre. I know about twenty people who post on this board and completely agree with me. I won't out them because of their friendship with Tom. Arcadia Bluffs is a cannot miss. If you are not opposed to one hour drives, the Smith Course, Fazio Course and Threetops (9-hole par three) is an excellent day of golf.

« **Reply #17 on:** June 23, 2002, 11:13:49 AM »

Don
High Pointe has seen better days, the maintenance practices are very poor. I don't think Doak would even recommend the course, but if you are a student of golf course architecture I'd give it a look see. You must take Wiggies' comments with a grain of salt, he believes Flint Hills is a "bullet proof" 7 and doesn't get Rustic Canyon. His tastes are largely influenced by his game and they lean more toward the superficial.

« **Reply #18 on:** June 23, 2002, 05:38:55 PM »

David,

Other than the poor maintenance and the absolutely horrible 18th hole, what didn't you like about the course? I played there 2 years ago, twice in fact, with other members of GCA and we found the course to be an enjoyable and challenging course and a bargain at $35.00. You can e-mail me your rant if you'd like. Do you find it without architectual merit or is conditioning your criteria?

« **Reply #19 on:** June 23, 2002, 05:47:04 PM »

Frank, isn't that the same DW that thinks Southern Hills is better than Prairie Dunes, big grain of salt, that fellas course rating guide should be marked by the SG.

« **Reply #20 on:** June 23, 2002, 08:39:02 PM »

Don, I would suggest that you play Kingsley twice (as a member I am a bit biased); Highpointe and Mistwood (the orginal 18) are the two gem courses close to TC that I would recommend that are not the dreaded resort golf. The Legend (Palmer) at Shanty Creek is a beautiful course if you want a dose of resort golf

.

I have not played Arcadia and hear great things about the course but many say that it is not a course that you would want ot play a couple of times a week. Crystal Downs is near impossible to get onto in July without a member. As the Bob Pillard (Kingsley Pro) if there is any way to pull it off. I second the recommendation to play Frankfort Country Club (9 hole course), very old fashioned golf. Take your hickory sticks to get a better feel for the course.

To please your wife, I would suggest the following restaurants The Old Mission Tavern about 12 miles north of town (nice drive no reservation and nice art gallery), Haddies in Suttons Bay (about 18 miles from TC, suggest reservation). Also there are some nice wine tours....just ask anyone.

« **Reply #21 on:** June 23, 2002, 09:28:58 PM »

Re Frankfort -

That is the first course I ever played, and I still remember going around it with my dad. I remember being completely overwhelmed by the course, and played it again a couple years ago, just to see if I could get even with a couple of the holes. Unless you have a huge sentimental attachment to the course, I can't see that there's much there. The course combines dense brush next to the fairways with blind shots on a short course in a very frustrating manner. If your idea of fun golf is trying to hit a 4-iron off a tee to the blind corner of a sharp dogleg, then running over the hill to see if your shot ran through the fairway and is stuck under a bush, you'll love golf at Frankfort. Otherwise, there are about 75 courses within an hour's drive that offer better golf.

Re TC area wines -

Now this is an important part of the discussion. My favorite regional wines are - Bowers Harbor Pinot Grigio, Mawby Cremant Champagne, and Shady Lane Pinot Noir. I'd put them up against any in the world in their price category.

« **Reply #22 on:** June 24, 2002, 06:24:06 AM »

Frank,

Do I know you? I do not remember ever posting on Rustic Canyon. In fact, I thought the greens at Rustic Canyon were some of the best I had ever seen. The green complexes were absolutely brilliant. I had an issue with too many short par fours, but on a whole, really enjoyed the course. Given the context of what it was built for, I thought that they did a masterful job. I also played pretty well for me (-2 after 12 holes shot 78ish).

Out of curiosity, what did you think Flint Hills should be on the Doak scale? What do you think High Pointe should be? Who are you and why do you think you know me?

Lurker - anyone who makes personal attacks and lacks the guts to post under their real name is obviously a wimpy loser. Given that, I am going to assume that you have never played either Prairie Dunes or Southern Hills so explaining my preference to you would be a waste of time.

Don,

This reaffirms even more my belief that you should skip High Pointe. The only person who gets a bigger free pass then Tom Doak is the Pope. (This is an unfair comment in the context of High Pointe. It is not bad - It just is not one of the top 5 in Northern Michigan) If you dislike it, you will be forced to shut up or else face the wrath of a bunch of people who hope Doak will one day include them in Archipalooza and are willing to sell their souls for the invitation.

« **Reply #23 on:** June 24, 2002, 06:37:40 AM »

Craig,

I will reply on the board and the answer is a little of both. Don is coming all the way from Arizona and has a couple of days to play golf. I completely agree with you that at $35.00, High Pointe is a terrific bargain. When I travel, I try to play the best courses that I can, given that I never know if I will get back to the area. Cost and bargains are not concerns of mine. If Don lived in Michigan, I would tell him that he had better see High Pointe one of these days as some of the green complexes are inspired. On the other hand, the maintenance is puke and some of Doak’s features have been removed from the course. It changes more for the worse each year. If Don only has a few rounds, I would recommend Crystal, Kingsley, Pilgrims, Arcadia, Heather, Smith, Bay Harbor (Only to see how a mediocre design can take one of the best pieces of property I have ever seen and turn it into a bottom top 100 - This course should have been a bulletproof top 10 – Imagine what Doak could have done here), Legend (For a very fun and relaxing round on a classic resort course), or Belvedere. Heck, I would even recommend the Bear for a student of architecture. It may be the worst course Nicklaus ever built and it is a great study in what not to do in golf course design. With all of those choices, I just do not see a reason to work in a course that is a bargain but no longer a great golf course.

Does that make sense?

« **Reply #24 on:** June 24, 2002, 08:53:52 AM »

Thanks everyone for all the responses. As David writes I have limited time to play and I enjoy getting off the beaten path and seeing lesser known courses. Whether I get to High Point or not will depend on time, but I will at the very least probably try and go see it just to satisfy my curiosity. Some great golf has been lined up for me and hopefully the weather will cooperate. I love good golf courses, but more then likely some of the best golf I will play will be the daily 7pm tee off with my 9 year old and my father in law at a little nine holer in town called (I think) Mitchell Creek. Believe it or not, there is not one decent short course in Southern Arizona (too many real estate courses) and I look forward to a course I can play with my son.
David, (my invite to Archipalooza must have been lost in the mail

) I'm warming up for the 22nd. Thanks for the info and I'll see you in a month, and yes I'll pay off my wager (double or nothing on the British?).

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