[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

David,
What about your beloved Capilano?

Two good par fours, a great long par three and very good par five.

Not American, of course, but this discussion needed an international flavour.

[Paul Richards]

David:

Since you haven't visited Beverly CC yet, I'll let you continue to believe that Canterbury has the best 4-hole finish.

I haven't played Canterbury yet, so I cannot attest to which is better.  What I can tell you is that the four finishing holes at Beverly are as good (or better!) than any four-hole closing stretch I've ever seen.

A 461-yard par 4, a 417-yarder (Prichards' restoration plan will add a new championship tee), a 207-yard par 3 to a very difficult green (new tee), and, finally, a 592-yard par 5 dog-leg right (also getting a new championship tee).

This four-hole stretch can make or break every round at Beverly and I am proud to say it is as good as it gets!

[Mike Hendren]

Paul,

You remain an unabashed homer , but Beverly immediately came to my mind as well.  The 15th with its rumpled fairway, the severe cant of the 16th and 17th greens and the ridge about 120 yards out on the 18th that makes the second shot meaningful are all memorable.  

[David Wigler]

Paul,

I still hope my schedule allows me to see Beverly this year.  I am not sure Canterbury is the best, just that it belongs in the discussion.

Ben,

Forgot about Capilano.  It belongs in the discussion as well.  Funny thing about Capilano.  #6 is my second favorite golf hole in the world (#16 at Cypress is first).  I like it so much that I tend to forget how good 15,16,17,18 are.

[Paul Richards]

Dave;

I look forward to your visit!

Mike:

No doubt I am a homer.  But I am justifiably proud of "my home course."

[Will E]

Paul,
Beverly may indeed have the toughest four hole finish I've ever encountered. Fasten your seat belt for sure when you tee off on 15.
Here's a shocker, my favorite finishers would be Shinnecock (starting at 14) and TPC Sawgrass (starting at 1). Oakland Hills last five are pretty impressive too.

[John_McMillan]

Having watched the US Amateur this last weekend, I think the finishing 5 at Oakland Hills are pretty strong (pick any 4 if you have to for the comparison with Canterbury).

The 14th is a long par-4 which usually ranks highly in the most difficult holes across courses which host the Open.  To me, the roller-coaster green adds interest on top of the resistance to scoring which the hole's length creates.  Ricky Barnes up and down from 120 yards after hitting into the trees on his drive earned a half in the match with Haas and was a key part of winning Barnes the Amateur.  

The bunker in the middle of the 15th fairway gives that hole a number of options - playing short of the bunker, trying to work the ball right to left around the dogleg or busting a drive over the bunker.  

Tom Doak describes the 16th as "just another water hole," but watching it in competition the last couple years makes me think there's more to the hole.  There's a club choice off the tee with the trade-off of extra distance versus the cost of trying to hit a shot over the water out of the rough.  The approach too generates a lot of options, with the options of playing safer options to the left of the green versus biting off more water to aim for a pin on the right of the green.  Stadler's chip-in at the Amateur also suggests there's some interesting potential for short-game play around the green.

The 17th is an impossible par-3 with a long-iron approach to a well-bunkered and sectioned green, with the hog-back making putts across the green an adventure.  The pins in front of the green are easiest to get close to, but force a decision bringing the bunkers into play.  Pins back left and back right are going to create some monster putts.  The tee shots at 17 aren't that exciting to watch, because almost no one plays them well, but tune in for the chips and putts, because they force a lot of short-game creativity.

The 18th is probably the toughest par-4 finishing hole in championship golf - because it's really a par-5 hole (at least the members have enough sense to play it that way).  I wonder if the hole would be better appreciated by GCA folk if it played in tournaments as a par-5 - would we see comparisons between that and the 13th at Augusta National as great "tweener" holes?  Tough drive into the reverse-bank fairway which you have to hit to reach the green in 2 shots.  Still a tough 4 from the rough or a bunker (ask Tom Lehman), though still possible in championship conditions (ask Ricky Barnes).  

Though the finishing stretch at Oakland Hills is most prominently known for its resistance to scoring, there are tactical options in that stretch which make it a great run of holes.

[Leslie_Claytor]

Tim & David,

Sorry for the delay between posts, but I've been a little busy at Harding Park.  

I stand on my post that #15 is a good, but not a "great" hole.  I can think of several other holes at Canterbury that IMHO are superior, #1, 2, 4, 7, 9, 11 come quickly to mind.  I always loved the back of number 12 green and how they camoflouged a fill slope by shaping small hummocks into a 4:1 slope.

As for golf sites, Canterbury is an excellent routing over a very good piece of farmland, but not unlike other northern Ohio courses designed on similar sites.  Shaker and Highland Park share similar terrain, and the Country Club, Pepper Pike, Mayfield, Kirtland, et al are similarly blessed.  I was the layout person at Sand Ridge in Chardon, and Quail Hollow and they both were great sites.  Hell, I played a mom and pops course in Hinckly July 4th, and it was enjoyable simply bcs of  the natural golfing terrain if for nothing else.  

I always admired the site planning at Canterbury with the elegant entry drive winding its way past number nine and twelve.  Talk about an entry statement, and the routung and finishing sequence is tremendous.  

On the subject of blindness, I'm very flexible.  There's mystery in things unseen, in moderation I guess.  Number sixteen at Shaker is one of my favorites, and it's a par three not unlike the approach to #15 at Canterbury (#18 at SHCC is very similar also).

As for finishing sequences, I'd put the final four holes at Sand Ridge against Canterbury.  I've yet to go back to play it, but that's a strong stretch of holes around a beautiful wetlands.  

[Tim Weiman]

Leslie:

The land at Canterbury may not be that different than several other places one might cite on the east side (or south side) of Cleveland.  But, I still think it is pretty damn good.

As for Mom and Pops in Hinckley, I've played my share of rounds there as well.  If you want a work out, walking Hinckley Hills is a good start!

[David Wigler]

John and Shooter,

I cannot argue with 14, 15, 17, and 18 at Oakland Hills (Although the bunker work on 14 and 15 is really bad).  16 might be the worst hole on the golf course.

Leslie,

I played Sand Ridge in the morning and Canterbury in the afternoon.  Sand Ridge is a wonderful place.  I was extremely impressed with so many aspects of the club.  That written, IMO its finishing four are neither as good a challenge nor as impressive a collection as Canterbury (Realize that I believe Canterbury is on the short list of best final four in North America, so saying Sand Ridge is not as good is hardly an insult).

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