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Scott_Burroughs

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What NLEs have you played?
« on: August 30, 2002, 07:57:24 AM »
This thread is spurred from an idea I thought of in the Gator Hole thread.  Gator Hole in N. Myrtle Beach 'No Longer Exists' (NLE) as of just 2-3 years ago, as a shopping center was more valuable than the course.

Sure, Dan Wexler's book 'Missing Links' describes prominent NLE of the past, but most of us aren't old enough to have played them (like past 'one of the two best courses in the world', Lido).  But how many NLEs have you played that you can think of?

I thought of 4 1/2 off the top of my head:

-Gator Hole
-Font Hill (exec course outside Baltimore)
-Sing Sing (par 3 course in Horseheads, NY)
-the 'old' Finley (U of NC's former course, before Fazio came in a built a completely new course, with a different routing)
-Virginia Tech GC's front nine, which was closed to build a conference center.  
 
how about you?
 


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Mike_Cirba

Re: How many NLEs have you played?
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2002, 08:07:01 AM »
Surprisingly, and probably fortunately, not many...

Better yet, most of them are still golf courses, on the same site.  They include;

Hidden Springs CC (Horsham, PA) - George Fazio

Now the site of Commonwealth CC, a completely new course and corporate center.

Malvern GC (Malvern, PA) - William/David Gordon

Now a housing development

Montgomeryville G&CC (Montgomeryville, PA) - Bob Hendricks

Now the site of Ron Prichard's PineCrest CC as well as a housing development.

Yorktowne GC (York, PA) - Neil McGeehan

Now the site of a completely brand new course called Hawk Lake by architect James Ganley.  

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John_Conley

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Re: How many NLEs have you played?
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2002, 08:10:56 AM »
Great thread.  When I was 17 I played Dunes, Tropicana, and Showboat in Las Vegas.  I think Showboat (which I actually remember as being pretty good) had a name change.  I think Dunes and Trop are gone, which is actually a good thing.  I also played D.I., but that may have just undergone a renovation.

I need to think of where else I've been, because I'm sure there are more than just those two.

Does a driving range in Maitland count!?
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Scott_Burroughs

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Re: How many NLEs have you played?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2002, 08:13:02 AM »
Another one I thought of may or may not count.  Perhaps someone might have more info on it than me.

In Vegas, I played the Sunrise CC's West course, where Chip Beck shot a 59 during the LV Invitational a few years back.   Sunrise's 3 courses were bought and the same location now houses Stallion Mountain's 3 outrageously priced courses, but I don't know if the courses were bulldozed for 3 new ones, or the same routing was kept and "renovated".  Anyone know the story?
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Jesper

Re: How many NLEs have you played?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2002, 08:28:05 AM »
The many lives of the Toy Town Tavern:

http://www.boston.com/sports/golf/courses/070199.htm

The Globe story is good reading.  This is a Ross that I played as a kid.  I thought it was gone, but it survives with a different name, and for many years, different hole routing.

I'm happy to learn that TTT is NOT an NLE!
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Allan Long

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLEs have you played?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2002, 08:38:53 AM »
California:
Birch Hills (Housing)
Imperial (Housing)
River Valley (Housing)
Stardust (bulldozed and totally redone; NKA Riverwalk)
Twin Lakes (Housing)

Florida:
Doral-White (To my understanding the new Great White course that occupies the site is a total redesign, nothing left of the old white)

Hawaii:
Kauai Surf (Now home to the Kauai Marriott Resort and two Nicklaus courses, the Kiele and Mokihana at Kauai Lagoons GC)

Missouri:
Crackerneck (Housing)

North Carolina:
Finley at UNC (bulldozed and totally redone by Tom Fazio)
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I don't know how I would ever have been able to look into the past with any degree of pleasure or enjoy the present with any degree of contentment if it had not been for the extraordinary influence the game of golf has had upon my welfare.
--C.B. Macdonald

John_Conley

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Re: How many NLEs have you played?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2002, 08:52:21 AM »
If bulldozing and redoing counts, I get credit for the Raven at Sandestin.  I think it should only count if the course's property is now something else like a Krispy Kreme or Hooters.
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Doug Wright

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Re: How many NLEs have you played?
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2002, 09:23:22 AM »
Scott,

I'm sure there are others, but the only one I can think of instantly is Los Verdes, a nondescript semiprivate course in south Denver known for a par 6 of about 615 yards that was always an "eagle" opportunity. Replaced with a just-opened private course, Cherry Creek Country Club (Nicklaus).

I was also going to say Oak Hill East, but didn't want to start a fuss... ;D ;D

A Happy Labor Day Weekend to you all!

All The Best,
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Twitter: @Deneuchre

Craig Rokke

Re: How many NLEs have you played?
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2002, 10:23:05 AM »
Just one that I know of:

Malvern (PA) Golf Club
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Craig Van Egmond

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Re: How many NLEs have you played?
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2002, 10:29:34 AM »

There was a 9 holer in Washington called Mt. View that is no more.

Also Stardust and Desert Inn (is it gone yet?).

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TEPaul

Re: How many NLEs have you played?
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2002, 10:58:25 AM »
I remember that little old Malvern course!

The best one I remember was the old Links Club, LI (MacD/Raynor) cause I played it so much for a time.

I'm pretty old and I may have played lots of NLE's and probably some really great ones, maybe even The Lido but I can't remember.

It's not just that I'm getting old and I forgot either, it's just that for the first 35-40 years of my life I used to be pretty juiced most all the time and I generally could never remember what I did the day before.
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brad_miller

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Re: How many NLEs have you played?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2002, 11:16:46 AM »
Tom, who knows, you might have the course record at two wonderful NLE's :)
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TEPaul

Re: How many NLEs have you played?
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2002, 11:21:10 AM »
I think you might be right--somebody implied that once to me but it didn't really sound like it was for scoring!
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brad_miller

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Re: How many NLEs have you played?
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2002, 11:26:25 AM »
Tom, when did Lido close? you are pretty well preserved, whether or not you records were for scoring or other..... :)
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mike_beene

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Re: How many NLEs have you played?
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2002, 11:33:51 AM »
Bob O'links in Dallas was a 9 hole course closed for housing in early 70's.It was either Bendalow or Tillinghast.I believe the McComas family owned it.
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TEPaul

Re: How many NLEs have you played?
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2002, 11:34:07 AM »
Did the Lido close? Jeesus, that's a terrible shame!

OH, THAT'S what NLE means! Well, you learn something new every day!

Yes, I am well preserved! It's all in the pickling process and as I think I might have mentioned before I kept myself extremely well pickled for the first 35-40 years of my life. Since then though it's been quite rapidly downhill!
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Scott_Burroughs

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Re: How many NLEs have you played?
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2002, 11:37:03 AM »
Tom,

Your story sounds a lot like Dennis Hopper's.  He can't remember the 60's and 70's.
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Rick_Noyes

Re: What NLEs have you played?
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2002, 11:42:26 AM »
There was (is?) a Donald Ross course built on the Rockefeller estate in the middle of Ft. Bragg Military Reservation.  Mike Gleason, an architect formerly with Dan Maples and Pete Jones went out and documented the course.  It was shut down a couple of years ago and no longer maintained.  There was some talk of reviving it but have not heard anything lately.  When the ASGCA met in Pinehurst some of them went out and played it and said it was a treat.  I have not played it but have but out and walked it.  Since 9/11 I don't think you can even get to it anymore.  I have the scorecard and routing, if I can scan it I'll post it tonight or tomorrow.
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TEPaul

Re: What NLEs have you played?
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2002, 11:48:21 AM »
Scott:

Actually Dennis Hopper can remember the '60s and '70s he just doesn't like to admit it--he says it's way too painful and he also says it makes his right arm and left ear twitch simultaneously, for some reason.
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Scott_Burroughs

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Re: What NLEs have you played?
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2002, 11:57:35 AM »
Rick,

The "lost Ross" at Fort Bragg is Overhills.  I found out about this course last winter and meant to post a thread about it, but forgot.  Thanks for bringing it up.

Here's all you need to know about it:

http://www.triadgolf.com/winter2001/oncourse_dormant.htm

Side note:  those pics at the top of the link are all of Tobacco Road.

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Rick_Noyes

Re: What NLEs have you played?
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2002, 12:12:22 PM »
I really didn't think I could post a course on this site that no one had heard about. ;D
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Bob_Farrell

Re: What NLEs have you played?
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2002, 12:35:32 PM »
Scott:

Glad you picked this up and ran with it.

Here  in northern NJ, and I'm sure Pat Mucci can jibe in hgere as well, we have seen the demise of:

Valley View GC......... Now the home of the corporate headquarters for Nabisco

Ferncliff GC...... a major industrial park in West Caldwell

Mazdabrook Farms GC....... a housing development

Englewood CC... site of the 1908 US Open won by George Sargent and a hideout for many major celebrities performing on Broadway, e.g., Jackie Gleason, Eddie Cantor, Al Jolson, etc.

BF
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ChipOat

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Re: What NLEs have you played?
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2002, 01:03:39 PM »
Since Tom Paul can't remember The Links Golf Club in Manhasset (LI), NY (about 5 miles from Garden City GC), I'll fill in for him.  I'm not as old as Tom, but I didn't start the pickling process until later in life so my memories of The Links are pretty clear although I didn't appreciate what I was seeing until after the course closed around 1982-85.

It's also the only course in Wexler's book that I'm old enough to have played.

TOTALLY ORIGINAL CB MACDONALD!!  UNCHANGED SINCE EARLY 20'S CONSTRUCTION!!  It was a wonderfully old fashioned layout that the Whitney family and a couple of their friends built.  Never more than 50-75 members, the greens were slow (but wonderfully contoured) and the rough was minimal.  It had all the holes - Biarritz, Road, etc.  IMO, the best was a slightly uphill reverse Redan that was a full 190+ carry.

Two foursomes a day was a lot and you usually played through a foursome of caddies on a Saturday morning who (allegedly)waited for a loop by getting in a quick 18!  All members had their own carts and personal caddies.  It was a woinderfully anachronistic holdover from another era - the golden age of architecture meets Gatsby.

If it existed today, it would be the ultimate mecca for GCAers!
When it was sold to real estate developers after the last Whitneys (and William Paley) no longer played golf, there were some efforts made to purchase the property and keep it as a golf course but the $$$ offered by the ultimate purchasers were just too attractive.  Ironically, if they sold today, the money from true golf enthusiasts could probably be raised in less than a week given the response to places like Nantucket, East Hampton, The Bridge, Vineyard, etc.

Timing is truly everything.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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SPDB

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Re: What NLEs have you played?
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2002, 01:33:28 PM »
good story, chip. true that timing is everything. i was talking to the prez of a certain L.I. club that hosts a major every few years, and he was saying at that time (c. 1982) they were literally letting anybody into the club they were that in need.
same went for another major host in Westchester.

where's my time machine?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Dan Grossman

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Re: What NLEs have you played?
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2002, 01:52:47 PM »
I played the old Pinehurst #4 before it was redone.  Although I haven't played the new course, I understand that there is essentially nothing left of old #4.  True?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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