[Matt_Cohn]

Is it possible to build sandbelt-style bunkers in the states?

At our course at OU, the crew just spent the better part of the year sodding over what used to be the sand faces of the bunkers, because they always washed out during heavy rains. First the rain washed all the sand to the bottom, and when the sand was gone, the rain washed dirt to the bottom, where it mixed with the sand and contaminated everything it.

Is it possible to build sandbelt-style bunkers in Oklahoma - bunkers with hard faces that didn't wash out during heavy rains, with sand at the bottom that wouldn't be contaminated?

If the weather and/or soil conditions in Oklahoma don't allow it, could it work in southern California, where rain is not a concern, and particularly in the desert, if a sandy base is an important factor?

Can sandbelt-style bunkers only be built in sandy areas? Or can they be built out of other kinds of soil?

[Tom Doak]

Matt:

Those "stiff upper lips" of the bunkers at Royal Melbourne, Kingston Heath, et al., are a product of the native soil (a rich sandy loam) and the deep roots of common couch grass (we call it bermuda).

It is possible to do dramatic-looking sand-faced bunkers on heavier soils, paying close attention to never letting drainage water wash into a bunker -- but they're still likely to wash out in an area with occasional heavy rains.

I don't think it's possible to get the true "Sand Belt" look, including the lips, without similar soils.

An interesting tidbit:  on most of the Sand Belt courses, there is no bunker sand in the bunkers -- it's simply the same sandy loam they dug into.

[Matt_Cohn]

Can you "cheat" and import sandy soils to the site? Is this feasible?

[TEPaul]

Sand in bunkers that get "contaminated" by the natural soil??

Right there sounds like the beginning of a contradiction in terms to me! If natural soil contaminates sand it seems like that sand is probably the farthest thing from inherently natural to that site! But of course we all know that's true in probably the vast majority of courses across the world.

Look at what Tom Doak just said the bunker floors in the Sand Belt region are--they're the natural soil the bunkers were dug into!

It wouldn't upset me much if most all courses and sites did that--just used what's there naturally.

Sure you might get some people screaming about inconsistency, unfairness, whatever, for about a week but after that I'd wager they'd forget about it and deal with it like anything else!

I think the best way for any course to confront inconsistency of bunkering surface is to just confront the issue head-on with something like a very noticeable sign in the golf club that says: "These bunkers are unmaintained on purpose--the best way to deal with them is stay away from them!"

If the #1 course in the world was able to keep their bunkering basically unmaintained (until recently) all the years they were #1, any other course could certainly follow their lead and do it too!

"Contaminated by natural soil?"

That just inherently doesn't sound right!

[Matt_Cohn]

TEPaul,

Oklahoma red clay can contaminate just about anything - surely you don't want bunkers made out of that stuff right!!!

But I heard a comment from someone about "places that just weren't meant to have bunkers." Oklahoma seems like such a place...a powdery sand bunker is just the furthest thing in the world from "natural" there, and not surprisingly, maintaining them is hard.

But, when I talk about sand being contaminated, I'm talking about dark, heavy dirt and clay contaminating what the public generally thinks of as good bunker sand.

I don't think you can compare OU's sand with Pine Valley's sand, because there's no potential in Oklahoma for anything like what PV has. I don't think you meant it as an example in that way.

But still, could sandy soil be imported to a site to build more desirable bunkers?

[Gary]

Matt,

I had always wondered the same thing about the bunkers.  I loved how the Australian courses looked like they were cut with an exacto knife.  The only course that I have seen that reminds me of that is Dubsdread.  Not so much as having been cut with a knife but how the ball always feeds to the bottem of the bunker versus sticking in the upslope.  But, I think Tom is exactly right about the soil.  We just don't have it in the US.  

[TEPaul]

Matt:

Why can't the natural soil of Oklahoma be used as the surfaces of bunkers in Okla?

Who cares if it's red? Obviously if it's way too hard packed to play remotely properly for golf only in and of itself (sort of like hitting a bunker shot off I-95) then take the natural red soil and mix it with some sand to give it a more acceptable consistency (and a red color!)!

No one can say the bunkers of OU are contaminated if the sand is mixed with the natural soil in the first place!

That would give the entire look of the bunkering in that part of the world a far more inherently natural look, in my opinion.

The bunkering and sand waste areas of Pine Valley are (or were until recently) very much the natural sand (and soil) and the natural color of what's there anywhere.

Who really cares if it's a light brownish color in New Jersey and a reddish color in Okla if that's what's natural to either site?

[BCrosby]

Matt -

C&C's Cuscowilla in NE Georgia has red clay bunkers. The first time I saw them I was shocked. Absolutely speechless. After a couple of holes I started to think they looked pretty good.  By the end of that first round I loved them. It is the natural color of the soil here. Now courses in this area that don't have reddish bunker sand look artifical to me.

The bunkers are not pure clay.  They mixed clay and what appears to be a dirty river sand.  Some of the "sand" faces are quite steep and very attractive.

They also seem to hold up well, though a couple of local architects have told me they suspect there will be problems with them in the future. Dunno. We'll see.

But red clay bunkers - after an hour or two of getting used to them - can be sensational. Assuming, of course, that the soil in your region is made of the same stuff.

Bob

[Chris_Clouser]

Matt,

When I was at the OU course in June, I thought the bunkers there were much more red than say the two Maxwell courses in OKC (Twin Hills and Oklahoma City).  I assumed they had mixed the soil with the sand, but Stan Ball was out the day I was there so I couldn't really ask someone who was knowledgable about it.  

They were quite different.  By the way, the course there is very nice.  I loved the stretch from 12 to 15 on the back side.

Chris

[Craig Van Egmond]

A lot of the golf courses here in Oklahoma do utilize the red clay in there bunkers for a very distinctive look, including my home course Lakeside Memorial here in Stillwater. If I ever get my scanner working again, I have some good shots from around the state.

However a lot of the high end courses still are obsessed with having that blinding white bunker sand ala Augusta.  

[SPDB]

Steve Smyers has tried for this look on a number of his courses, notably Old Memorial and Royce Brook. Sometimes
I think he goes over the top in terms of sheer amount (e.g. fields of extraneous bunkers), but the design of these bunkers, with their "stiff upper lips," or sharp top lines, is as good a facsimile of the sandbelt bunkers that I have seen.

[Rick_Noyes]

If bunkers have the proper drainage you won't get the discoloration of soils leaching through.  This usually occurs when water has been standing in a bunker.  We've put white sand bunkers into red clay soils and have had no discoloration.

A side thought - I was dissappointed that they put a bleached white sand in the bunkers at Pinehurst #2.  The native sand (here in the sandhills of NC) is a brownish-gray.
You can see around the edges of #2 the native sand and the white sand in the bunkers just doesn't fit.  Although I'm sure it showed up better on TV.

[Michael Dugger]

So there are two options here.  Either you have bunkers because you are building your course over the ideal terrain, linksland, or you...what...don't have bunkers.  It is called the sand belt for a reason.  Not all of Australia is like this.  We do have landscapes in the U.S. which resemble this region.  Look at Sand Hills, Pac Dunes and Pine Valley to name a few.  A clay based soil sucks for golf, we've known this for a hundred years at least!  The comment RE: contamination is merely to address the situation you are in when you build a course over less than ideal terrain.  I think it is silly to say that if you have a clay based soil you cannot have bunkers.  The important part is to remember "stiff upper lip" bunkers are at risk for washout, and thus contamination, if the sand inside of them is something different from that of which the ENTIRE course is built upon.  

[RJ_Daley]

Wild Horse has the closest thing I have seen to what appears to be the Melbourne Sand Belt courses stiff upper lips, as I have only seen OZ on TV and not in person.  But, they are not as strong and have crumbled in places unlike the exacto knife edges that cut right into the greens or inside fairway facing sides of fairway bunkers in Australia.  

But, Tom Doak's comment on the strength of the couch grass, or bermuda is in my view the key.  Sand Hills in Mullen has the bunker in the middle front of the green that is cut in the most similar style to RM or KH, yet the edges are not holding up like the Melbourne examples.  It seems obvious to me that the native sand in Mullen does not have the component of loam that Melbourne must have.  But more importantly, the native grass and fescue surrounds of that bunker on the 8th in Mullen does not have the knitted strength of rhizomatic nature that bermuda or couch has.  So it just won't hold together in the end.  Wild Horse's are holding up slightly better, but still crumbling because Wild Horse has a slight amount of loam in the top few inches more so than Mullen.  But still, the fescues don't knit like the jut-back carpet nature of the bermuda.

Have I got that right, Josh, Cory, or TD?

[Gary]

What about the sand base at or around Pinehurst?  Would that be consistent with sandy loam?

[Rick_Noyes]

It's either sandy loam or loamy sand
seriously, it basically sand I'm not certain of it's actual classification.

[Tom Doak]

Tom P:  Red clay bunkers?  Who does your laundry?

[Steve Lang]

The only course in Oklahoma I've played is Dye's Oak Tree Golf Club in Edmond, ... they have a very fine red gravel in many bunkers... Take some getting used to, especially when you have a 12 foot lift to the green like on #11.

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