News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Lou Duran

Pine Dunes GC, Frankston, Texas
« on: May 21, 2002, 09:22:44 AM »
This course was mentioned in a previous thread, apparently after J. Whitten visited the site and wrote a brief Golf Digest (or GD.com) article about it.  A couple of weeks ago, I played this Jay Moorish design some two hours southeast of Dallas with a colleague who touted it as his favorite Texas course.  In my estimation, it is not the best course down here, but it is arguably in the top 20, if not the top 10.

As the name implies, the course is built on sand and through pines.  The topography has a nice natural roll, with some significant elevation changes (e.g. downhill par 3, #6, 254 yards).  There are some dune-like features, but not in a grand scale.  The course has a rustic appearance, with nice contrasts between the native grasses, unmaintained, exposed sandy areas, and the pines framing all the holes.

Architecturally, Moorish provides an interesting, very walkable routing.  It measures 7117 yards from the back (where we played from), par 72.  Four sets of square tees on each hole are staggered making the angle to the target easier as one moves forward.  The tee markers are small clay planters with a flowering plant (I thought it was a nice touch, not overdone at all).

The first four holes form a loop from and to the west side of the clubhouse.  #3 is an unusual, slightly uphill par 3 built in a scraggly, sandy waste area.  At only 160 yards, the pin is partially hidden, and it has a "false" left side (predominant wind is R/L).

#5 is a very reachable, downwind par 5, 501 yards, with a fairway split by a long, narrow grouping of pines.  The left side is shorter, but the drive must clear an unkept sandy waste area (maybe 220 yards), and the terrain rolls left toward an unseen (OB) boundary.  A large sand trap 40-50 yards to the right of the green looks like eye candy, but I believe that it was placed there to prevent the conservative player who chooses the right side of the split fairway to blast away on his second shot.  The bunker forces him to choose a club that is long enough to reach an opening to the green past the trees down the middle, yet short enough to stay out of the sand.

# 6 is a great looking redanesque par 3, #254 yards, downwind/downhill.  It has water far left (largely hidden from back tees), and the left half+ of the green is guarded by a large, deep bunker.   The green surround has a pronounced R/L slope, but the two bunkers on the right are too close to the green to encourage a run-up off the bank.

Through the remainder of the course Moorish provides a wide array of holes, from short 344 yard par 4 (#15) to a 605 yard par 5 (#11).  There are some forced carries for the adventurous, but typically, the shorter hitter also has an alternative safe route.  The course does have two holes that I consider weak, the 348 yard par 3 #2, and the 512 yard par 5 #18.

Perhaps one of the strengths of the course are the considerable undulations and movement of the greens and the surrounds.  The greens are typically large, with a "green -within-green" design.  When fast, hitting it to the right spot is a must.  Adding the often present Texas wind, they could get outright brutal.  The bunkers throughout the course are interesting, though not highly artistic, and generally well placed.  Sand quality is outstanding.

Conditioning is very good given that it is a new course.  The fairways and rough have a good stand of bermuda 419, and the greens are Tiff Eagle.  Conditions are generally firm and relatively fast, though the greens had been aerated and sanded the week before so they didn't provide the full effect.

From a construction standpoint, it was very evident that there was considerable attention paid to detail.  While the owner/manager did not divulge the total project cost, the sprinkler system alone cost $1.5MM (in the typical east Texas simple but wise manner, it was explained to me that one builds a church for Sunday, not for the other days of the week; translation- a sprinkler system needs to have the capacity to handle the driest months and extended periods of drought).  The clubhouse, maintenance buildings, parking, etc. are modest by most standards.  However, I saw evidence of extensive underground drainage (sand drains very well, but it still needs some help in moving water) and an outstanding practice facility which lead me to conclude that the owner knew where to spend the money.

If someone is in the D/FW or north Houston areas, the drive to the course is well worth it.  Green fees are $45 during the week, probably a little higher on the weekends.  It includes cart, but walking is allowed (my group did, though we got some strange looks from other golfers).  There were only 9 cars on the parking lot during the middle of the day (on a Weds.), so access is typically not a problem, and we played in 4 hours after letting a twosome through.

Pine Dunes phone number is (903)876-4336.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Dunes GC, Frankston, Texas
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2002, 09:50:17 AM »
Thanks for the info lou.
I have an unreputable source that has been praising
the course since he's seen it.  I think he fell for the pine valley hype.
Is it worth a drive from Houston someday?
When are you going back? [asking to hear your replay value]
Glad to hear you let the twosome through.
Mike.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Dunes GC, Frankston, Texas
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2002, 11:26:38 AM »
Lou,
 You mentioned the sand quality is outstanding. I am curious what that means. Is it easier to get up and down out of? Or does it not cause "fried eggs", etc.. Just curious to know.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Lou Duran

Re: Pine Dunes GC, Frankston, Texas
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2002, 12:40:39 PM »
Mike,

I think that it is a very good golf course and unique enough for this part of the country to warrant a 2-3 hour drive.  Don't expect a Pine Valley, but a solid test of golf in an attractive setting.  My plans are to play it again this summer, maybe on a 2 day/1night tour including Crown Colony in Lufkin, and Whispering Pines in Trinity.  Any interest?

Shivas,

I don't know if the drivable at your own peril short par 4 is a Moorish or Weiskopf creation.  Two of their courses in the Metroplex, Buffalo Creek and Mira Vista, each have one such hole which, with the right conditions, most good players can reach.  The second hole at Pine Dunes is 348 yards long and reachable by the ultra-long.  I was about 60 yards short with an OK drive.  It plays to the northwest, so the wind helps some, and it is not heavily guarded by hazards to exact a large penalty unless one misses very badly.  The only other Moorish course that I've played, Sports Club TPC, also has a hole drivable by the very long (e.g. Tiger has done it), #1, but none that a mere mortal can comfortably reach.

Ed,

The sand at Pine Dunes was firm and relatively packed (it had rained a couple of days before, but the ground was pretty dry).  It is of a medium to fine grain, but not powdery.  It has some color to it; certainly not a glaring white.  I don't have enough experience to say that the ball won't bury, but my couple of shots were from good lies and the club went through the sand easily (without digging or bouncing).  With the exception of one hole where the sand seemed to have a lot of red in it (perhaps from clay), all the other traps were very consistent in terms of texture and color.  Also, because the waste areas are largely sand, the firmness makes the course more playable and easier to maintain.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Robert

It's Morrish, folks
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2002, 06:18:19 AM »
Not Moorish.

I played the course recently and got paired with a writer from GolfTexas.com, who said he was writing a story sometime this summer. He also has a profile of Jay Morrish on GolfTexas.com.

I liked the course ... traditional golf. Great bunkers. Morrish has already said it is some of his best par 3 work. If you like golf in the pine trees and sand flats this is for you. Only 90 miles from Dallas. Heard that Justin Leonard visited and praised it. David Frost gave the owner, a young female, lots of advice. I hear the young owner made her money managing portfolios of pro athletes from Dallas (before the stock market went to crap).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Lou Duran

Re: Pine Dunes GC, Frankston, Texas
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2002, 06:34:02 AM »
Thanks for the correction, Robert.  I also got Mr. Whitten's first name initial wrong.  It should be R.  What is it about the bunkers that you liked so much?  Do you concur with Mr. Morrish's opinion of the par 3s?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bob (Guest)

Re: Pine Dunes GC, Frankston, Texas
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2002, 05:26:11 AM »
Here's a new story about Pine Dunes I found. I plan to play it next week.

http://www.golftexas.com/departments/coursereviews/pine-dunes-resort.htm
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Larry Rodgers

Re: Pine Dunes GC, Frankston, Texas
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2002, 09:02:43 PM »
For the record, the irrigation (sprinkler) system at Pine Dunes was substantially less than the $1.5 million! Now maybe someone included the 3 acre lake construction, 3 phase power to the pump station, the water features and anything else related to water in that figure. The cost I remeber is much closer to $1.0 including pump station which is more in line with other quality courses in the area.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re: Pine Dunes GC, Frankston, Texas
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2002, 09:41:44 PM »
I saw the plans for this course around two or three years ago and didn't recognize the name until you mentioned the owner.

Her story is pretty cool, from what I have heard about it. Wasn't she a former Dallas Cowboys cheerleader? ? ? ?

Anyway, Orignally they were supposed to put a spa in there, but somehow ran out of money for that portion of the project. it was supposed to be a pretty impressive resort from what I had heard.  Although my remberences of the 18th, which seemed to be a very odd and clumsy dog-leg par 4 wasn't very good-looking on paper.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Lou Duran

Re: Pine Dunes GC, Frankston, Texas
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2002, 10:08:17 PM »
Tommy,

The 18th is now an akward par 5, dogleg right.  It is probably my least favorite hole in the course, and the only one that seems contrived.  Pine Dunes is a notable course, but it should not be mentioned in the same paragraph as Pine Valley or Sand Hills.  It is worth the two hour drive from Dallas.

Larry,

The $1.5MM number was quoted to me by one of the owners.  It seemed high to me, and it could very well include the costs you mentioned.  Even if it was "only" $1MM, it is still a substantial amount of money for a course that may be limited to less than 30,000 rounds annually due to its remote location.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Joe

Re: Pine Dunes GC, Frankston, Texas
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2002, 07:16:09 AM »
Nope, she was not a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader, a pro figure skater from Minnesota. Read the story above, tells you all that stuff that led to this course becoming reality.
Joe
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

edeudo

Re: Pine Dunes GC, Frankston, Texas
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2002, 04:52:16 AM »
pine dunes is no crown colony, but nothing is far as i'm concerned.........but it's a great course and never seems to be crowded.  pretty far away from anywhere--closest town of any size is Athens.  lots of variety and pretty darn good bermuda greens.  sure worth a trip--100 miles on the nose from downtown dallas.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pine Dunes GC, Frankston, Texas
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2002, 09:59:40 AM »
I am bringing this thread backup for those who would like additional information about Pine Dunes.  As Mike Beene informed us, it is a course that is worth the extra time to get to.  Hopefully I will be playing it again in the first part of October before they overseed the greens (I am not sure that they are planning to, but most courses here in TX overseed bermuda greens).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back