[Patrick_Mucci]

I keep on hearing about the need for width, how it enhances many of the strategies and shot making values.

Then I started thinking about NGLA, a course that I love, architecturally, atmospherically  and from a playability perspective.

I began to analyze the width available on the holes at NGLA and was surprised by MY conclusion, which may differ from others.

It appeared to me, with respect to tee shots, that some holes appeared wide, and were wide, but others appeared wide and were quite narrow from a playability point of view.

I view holes such as # 's 1, 2, 5, 7, 8, 9, 12, 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18 as much narrower than they appear to be, from a playability stand point.  Perhaps that is how the golf course sets up for my game, but I would be happy to discuss the lack of playable width, on a hole by hole basis, starting with
# 1.

Is the key to width the perception or the reality ?

[Jeff Fortson]

Patrick,

#1 plays quite narrow in my opinion.....  if you hit driver.  I have hit driver everytime and had balls in the parking lot that I thought were good tee shots and balls on the front edge that I thought were identical to those in the parking lot.  Unless you are trying to sling hook a drive into the front of the green you have to play a fade into that right to left slope just short of the bunkers to the right for the best chance of keeping it in the fairway.

I think that width is a little of both perception and reality.  We all know how mental golf is and the perceived width can affect a players mind, decisions and as a result his/her swing and shot.  However, reality plays a part as well.  Depending on the slope of some landing areas the reality of hidden or disguised safe areas can be quite a relief upon finding your ball in these areas that you may have thought to be in a bad spot when originally struck.  

Nice post.

Jeff F.

[JakaB]

Are we to discuss width as it relates to our game...the professionals...or the 18 handicapers...Does width presented along the line of charm really exist as width at all or is width only present at the best strategic location...and does that strategic location change based on the ability of the player to control his approach...width for width itself must be defined in context to results desired...or we're just talking about finding our ball.

[Joe Hancock]

I couldn't help but think of Sahalee when this thread popped up. Talk about perception when width is concerned! On TV it looks like you couldn't putt off the tee without hitting trees, yet the pro's seem to find a lot of fairways with their drivers.

Joe

[Jim_Kennedy]

Patrick,
Width enhances the number of areas to hit from but that doesn't necessarily relate to strategic play nor does width add anything to the value of shots, only their availability
While the perception of width may influence our decisions, especially from the tee, the reality of width is what we are  dealing with during the play of the hole. When used in conjunction with well planned greensites it offers choices to players of varying abilities. If it's just "there" and really doesn't contribute to the hole than it's use becomes  superflous at best, a beater's paradise at worst.

I wish I was as familiar with NGLA as you and able to discuss those holes with you. Hopefully someone will and I can't wait to read the posts.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jim Kennedy,

When I look at holes like # 2, I view it as a very, very narrow fairway.

I find # 8 to be incredibly narrow.

# 14 is incredibly narrow, and

# 15 is even named narrows because it's so narrow, yet they somehow don't look so narrow from the tee, with the exception of # 15.

I believe that width at NGLA is more a perception or imagination than it is a reality.

Even holes like # 9 and # 16 appear very wide, yet if you examine the available flat fairway surface, it is very confined, with other areas of the fairway steeply sloped, fooling the golfer into thinking it is a wide fairway.

It may be wide for the maintainance crew, but I find it narrow when I play there.

How do others who play the course find the fairways off the tee ?

[TEPaul]

Pat:

I'd be glad to discuss the fairway widths at NGLA with you hole by hole!

The thing I like about fairway widths at NGLA, perceived, imagined or real is they are ANYHING BUT STANDARDIZED in width as they are on so many golf courses!

The beauty of the fairway widths at NGLA is each individual hole's fairway width seems to be tailor made perfectly for all that particular hole is and can be topography-wise (slope-wise, internal contour-wise), natural feature-wise, fairway bunker-wise, green-end strategy-wise, all of which dictates maximum playability, maximum strategy in relation to the tee shot, the next shot, the approach shot to the green etc, etc.

If ever there was a golf course's fairways that are an example of why any golf hole's and golf course's fairways (given good topograhy and architecture) should NOT be of standard width, It's NGLA (of course I've never seen TOC)!

Not that the course doesn't have rough, mind you, but NGLA seems to use all the land available for fairway that makes sense to use on each hole for golf!

Of course the overriding thing about NGLA's fairways and their varied and functionally varied widths is given ideal firm and fast conditions (the ideal maintenance meld) the golf ball is going to do anything BUT stay in that fairway spot where you might aim it or land it!

And that's just the topographic holes that have a lot of slope or contour in the fairway areas and use it all with width (#2, #5, #11, #14, #16)!

How about holes that use architectural features (either straight tee shot or for approach reasons) to "strategize" all that width like #7, #8!!, #10, #17!!!, or some combination of architectural features and topography (#3, #9, #18 ). Even a few holes who's fairways really aren't wide at all (#1, #12, #15)!

Think of a hole like #17 (maybe the most unusual and off-beat hole there)! Short par 4, enormously wide fairway with architectural features all over it and a big basically flat green (for such a short hole) but using degrees of visibility and blindness with it all. I have a feeling that if you looked at that green as a circle and considered all your available tee shot angles to set up approach angles they could be 100+ degrees or more! I'm not sure I know another hole anywhere that has such a breadth of angle of approach using fairway!

One might even consider that MacDonald used fairway width on the Eden hole. It seems to be an ongoing mystery but he may have had a large amount of fairway to the right of the hole. Can you imagine trying to chip a ball off of fairway over the bunker back right from a semi-downhill lie to a green running away from you like that one?

[brad miller]

Pat, can't think of another course that I haven't felt in certain places. ie a few holes where there could not be more width,(especially to a particular side) this hasn't been my experience at The National. Each hole seems to strike a wonderful balance. I do agree though that such width many times plays much narrower than it looks and feels. It would be interesting to know the actual widths and how they vary from hole to hole. What do you think of the Bottle hole, is it one large fairway with diagonal bunkers or in reality for most a rather narrow fairway to the right?

[Jeff_McDowell]

Pat,

I'm not being a smart-#ss here, but I would like some facts. I would like to know how wide a fairway is (in feet), and then your perception of the width.

I think it's important to know the dimensions, because a few feet can make a big difference. For example, a fully forested course north of here seems amazingly narrow. I've often wondered how I would find the fairway. I measured the width (from tree line to tree line) at 180 feet. Another fully forested course near here has plenty of room off the tee (at least for me). I measured the width at 220 feet. 40 feet made a huge difference in my perception.

The fifth hole at Cruden Bay is 250 feet in the landing area from dune to dune, but I struggled to find the short grass.

Besides not all of us are lucky enough to have played NGLA.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Brad Miller,

The bottle hole is one of my most favorite holes in the world.

Jeff,

Using # 16 as an example, the fairway may be as wide as 60-80 yards, but the elevated center spine, which sits above two enormous bowls, and is the only level spot on the fairway is about 20 yards wide.

From either tee, left or right, the fairway looks enormous, in fact, I don't ever remember anyone missing it, but, from a playability point of view, the elevated center spine, the only portion of the fairway that allows you to see the flagstick, is very narrow.  Miss it and you're ball finds its way to the deep bottom of those bowls with nothing but a steep slope and sky visible on your next shot.

[TEPaul]

Brad:

The Bottle hole's (#8 } total fairway width is 64-65 yards! But then you have to net out the centerline bunker scheme about 7 yards each in the inline part and 13 yards wide on the last pepindicular one at the end of the inline chain. So that gives the golfer about 30 some or less fairway area each on each side of the centerline bunker chain! And then there's a bit of left to right slope to both fairway areas!

#5 is about 70-80 wide at midsection but of course it's not called "hogsback" for no reason!

#16 is immense maybe 80 wide but the topography on it with too enormous right and left bowls with a narrow flatish center ridge between them makes the hole's drive dicey! Of course there's nothing really wrong with approaching the green from one of those enormous fairway bowls but all your looking at and aiming at is either something on the ridge of the fairway of those bowls or the sky! It helps if you can find a cloud to aim at and it isn't moving too fast!

#10 fairway is immense too (maybe 65+} but it's basically flat with a sort of diagonal bunker left and some way out right! There's basically a lot of unencumbered room on that fairway and the idea of that fairway is basically no more than a golfer's tee shot choice of how he wants that green approach to set up! It can be inline, narrow and lengthy or sort of wider and shallower from way out to the right!

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

I think one of NGLA's assets are the false visual signals sent to the golfers eye off the tee.

Standing on the 16th tee, everybody sees this vast expanse of fairway, and feels relaxed, confident that they can fire away at will, as hard as they want, with little fear of adverse consequences.

But, you are quickly educated that what looks benign is actually quite challenging.  

I think that is also one of the reasons that NGLA grows on you, the educational process associated with playing the course repeatedly, having it reveal its subleties and absolutes.

The other neat thing is that different levels of golfers are faced with different challenges that match their games.

Hopefully, Ran will post some pictures of the course soon.

[TEPaul]

Pat:

One thing that a first timer definitely can't see is the two fairway bowls on #16! The thing I would think that catches most golfer's eye on that tee shot is the large right side bunker that one must carry!

Perhaps you might see a vast amount of fairway out there but not me! That might just be because you're 2-3 inches taller than me!

This is probably the same reason Gil Hanse sometimes seems surprised when people tell him the green on #5 Inniscrone is totally blind from the high tee. The fact that Gil is about 6'6" might have something to do with that!

I'm probably kidding but maybe not!

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

May I suggest that you only play the left side tee  

What percentage of shots do you suppose stay on the spine ?

[TEPaul]

Because when I've played that course I play from the tee markers I'm supposed to play from!

I have no idea at all how many drives stay on that spine!

By the way, I stopped in there the other day and you're right, there's virtually no room to move the tee back to the south side of the driveway on #18.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

I know you think my idea is silly, but, faced with altering one of the great holes in golf, on a treasured golf course, don't you think that moving the gate and road to the north, and placing the tee back there is far, far better than moving a tee north and dramatically changing the play of the hole off the tee ?

Forget the money issue for a moment, and forget about the gate, Where is the ideal location for lengthening that hole ?

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