[Chris_Clouser]

In looking at the Del Paso thread I was curious how many other clubs have been influenced by Augusta National and have replaced bunkers over time with the oval and circular shapes much like Del Paso.  

Is this a common thing around the country?  

Also, I don't know what anyone else thought about them but the bunkers on the Del Paso thread have me scratching my head and wondering why they want that style on their course.  

This has nothing to do with the topic of the Philips versus Fowler designs so let's not go down that path.  

[Joel_Stewart]

Probably the biggest influence ANGC has on the bunkering is the bright white sand as opposed to the shapes.   Although in thinking about it, Augusta obviously used to have rough edge bunkering and has moved away from that for a number of years.  That also has had a huge influence for other clubs.

[Chris_Clouser]

I agree with the sand color and perhaps I should have included that, but I think the very cookie-cutter looking shapes are more alarming to me.  I am really curious if bunkers like this are easier to maintain and that is why they would be adopted or if it is a case of copying the Augusta model because that is what people want on their course.

I also wonder if the photos of Del Paso had been posted and no mention of who did them or where how quickly we would have received a comment about "Rees' pieces".

[Aaron Katz]

Count me among the minority here who don't mind Augusta's bunkering (my biggest problem with it is that many of them don't appear to present much of a hazard -- see, e.g., the greenside bunkers on nine -- due to the incredible quality of the sand).  The rough edged bunkering would have looked great on the original MacKenize course, but I think they'd look a bit out of place on the current model.  And between Rees Jones type bunkers that seem like thoughtlessly random, odd geometric shapes that don't look "natural" at all, I'll take Augusta's soap dishes.  

[TEPaul]

Chris:

In my opinion, that bunker style is merely a result of a desire towards over-all "immaculateness" in architeture that strongly took hold in America first and then elsewhere. ANGC may've basically invented that style or perhaps not but it's probably true to say they were the ones who made it most visible and perhaps were primarily responsible for popularizing it due to the visibility of The Masters. That bunker style and look is definitely not the way ANGC was designed though. That look evolved in modern times through excessively immaculate maintenance practices, probably after the advent of television.

[Ryan Farrow]

As I was paging through Forrest and Fine's bunker book, I noticed the section on Reese Jones on the natural rugged bunkers. I forget exactly what he called them but he basically said that they will all eventually cave in and have to be replaced. He also said they are expensive to maintain. IMO steep grass faced bunker have to be the most expensive by far. Add up all the additional labor from hand mowing and Fly mowing and constant edging, not to mention how hard it is to keep the steep edges from browning out and dieing. Was his statement that ludicrous or am I just a hater?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Chris,

Are you evaluating ANGC's bunkers based on TV and photos or personal observation ?

In person, the bunkers are anything but "cookie cutter"

As to their "whiteness" remember, it's showtime in April, and the contrast of the white sand and the green grass makes for high contrast, colorful viewing.

Clubs that don't televise their golf course, that choose ultra bright white sand, do so of their own volition, and it's the leadership of those clubs, not ANGC that should be taken to task.

[Joel_Stewart]

In person, the bunkers are anything but "cookie cutter"

Its the same at Del Paso, the bunkers actually have some nice movement and blend in very nicely.  I do have a problem with them being "lipless" around the greens as you can putt out of the bunkers fairly easily.

[ForkaB]

Pat is right in that you can't really judge bunkers by how they look in photographs.  Most links bunkers will look like "Rees' Pieces" when viewd from overhead.  On the ground, they are anything but "cookie cutter" shapes, because of the 3rd dimension.  I have to think that Rees was right in terms of the difficulty/cost of maintaining lacy edged bunkers, but I'll defer to the people who really know.  Finally, if the greenside bunkers at Del Paso can really be putted out of, I think this is a serious design flaw, even if the membership is full of Mr. and Mrs. Havershams.......

[TEPaul]

"I have to think that Rees was right in terms of the difficulty/cost of maintaining lacy edged bunkers, but I'll defer to the people who really know."

Rees is right. We know. Believe me, WE KNOW!    

[T_MacWood]

I believe what we see in those photos of Del Paso is Kyle Phillips' interpretation of Herbert Fowler. In the early stages of the project he said (and I'm paraphrasing) that he was not going to restore the course but remake it (or modernize it) in the style of Fowler. Phillips has worked on some other Simpson & Fowler courses (at least one in Morfontaine) and claims he has studied their work, and I think his expertise may have helped him get the job.

Do you think it looks like Fowler?

[Joel_Stewart]

Do you think it looks like Fowler?

Difficult to say considering Fowlers bunkers have evolved over 100 years and Del Paso's are brand new.  Fowler did use grass walls which Del Paso has none.  The use of the white sand which are full to the brink also destorts the bunkers at Del Paso.

[Gib_Papazian]

I don't care if those bunkers look like they were built by Herbert Fowler, Herbert Hoover, Herbert Warren Wind or Zippy the Pinhead . . . they still look like lifeless ovals.

However, I am the first person to admit that one must be on-site to really grasp how everything blends together.

I think with the limitless jing in the Augusta National coffers, ALL their traps ought to look like the "fairway" bunker on #10.

Maybe the "lacy edges" require too much maintenance, but there needs to be some kind of geometry and movement or it looks unnatural.

Augusta appears phony to me, but if Patrick says it looks good in-person, I'll accept that . . . . but when I close my eyes and imagine Jeff Bradley's work instead of what they have now . . . .    

[T_MacWood]

Difficult to say considering Fowlers bunkers have evolved over 100 years and Del Paso's are brand new.  Fowler did use grass walls which Del Paso has none.  The use of the white sand which are full to the brink also destorts the bunkers at Del Paso.

Joel
According to Phillips the brand new bunkers were going to be inspired by Fowler. I have to agree with the others, based on these photos the bunkers look more like they were inspired by Augusta or Rees Jones or Clorox. Do they say Fowler to you?

Did I miss something, of the photos you posted I didn't see any grass-faced bunkers?

I don't believe any Fowler bunkers survived past WW11 if there were any Fowler bunkers in the first place at Del Paso and I have my doubts.

[Joel_Stewart]

Do they say Fowler to you?

Did I miss something, of the photos you posted I didn't see any grass-faced bunkers?

I don't believe any Fowler bunkers survived past WW11 if there were any Fowler bunkers in the first place at Del Paso and I have my doubts.

Tom:

You are correct, which I said in my post, there are no grass faced bunkers.  You are also correct, nothing of Fowler survived after WW2 although surprising Del Paso has always had very few fairway bunkers, even when Fowler did the renovation.  Personally I don't think they looked that bad, they are very striking and much bolder than say Rees bunkers.  

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