[blasbe1]

Jim Fazio also designed "The Country Club of the Poconos at Big Ridge" on almost 1000 acres and 12 MILES of cartpaths near Marshalls Creek, PA.

Actually, sounds like a non-brainer for a major venue!  Cleary, the spead golf US Open should be held there, now finish 18holes in under an hour . . . HA

[Mark Brown]

I think Pine Barrens at World Woods may be Fazio's best course when it is in good conditioning. There are a lot of risk/reward options and good shot-making opportunities.

Overall, as far as the ranking of modern courses Golf Digest's  Top 100 is still relatively useless.

[Matt_Ward]

Mark:

Just curious -- who do you think does the best job in course ratings and why ?

Would things be better if new courses were put "on hold" for say two or three years to allow things to calm down and avoid the "flavor of the month" club push you see today?

Thanks ...

[A.G._Crockett]

Matt,
One comment in the Whitten article (which really comes across as  both an apology for the rankings and a plea for fiscal sanity in future GCA) indicates that raters who play Fazio courses once or twice fail to realize that design features such as TF's fairway bunkers "rarely pose strategic challenges, but that it takes a number of rounds to realize that."

That quote is tied in to a discussion of why Fazio courses are ranked highly, yet rarely selected for professional play, and only once for a major.

[Steve Lapper]

Guys ... guys ... guys ...

You've ALL missed my original point -- Digest prides itself on having low handicap golfers on their pane. The Digest raters tend to favor more demanding courses (e.g. Bethpage Black, Medinah #3, etc, etc).

Hey Matt.....


    I bet these "low handicappers" just ate up Plainfield!!!

[Matt_Ward]

A.G. --

The Whitten article on TF demonstrates the knowledge Ron possesses and clearly shows how he distinguishes himself from what the Digest raters see.

I don't doubt TF has talent -- it's just that the vast preponderance of the 55+ courses of his Ihave played all follow a common approach. Unlike the TF bashers on this site I do believe there are a few layouts he has designed that are outstanding -- unfortunately two of them -- Glenwild in UT and Karsten Creek are not rated among the top 100.

I don't agree that it takes more than one round to size up plenty of TF designs -- the bunkering pattern in so many of his layouts is wonderful to look at but rarely is tied to core shot values in playing the hole. It's more atmospheric than strategic which goes to show that golf design is more than just a scenic picture. Of course -- scenery must be working with the Digest panel when no less than 14 of his designs are represented.

Steve / redanman:

The drop of Plainfield is an absolute joke. Let me say that again -- J-O-K-E !!!!

The course is easily the 2nd best in the Garden State and minus the top tier gems like Shinnecock, WF / West, National, Bethpage / Black is right behind them in being among the best in the immediate NY metro area without any disrespect to Garden City and Quaker Ridge.

I would only hope the folks at the club do not REACT to this nonsense and try to "improve" what is already a gem of a layout.

[Steve Lapper]

Matt & Bill,

    Finally, I can 1000% agree with you both......the lowering of Plainfield was a F.......G joke, something that absolutely neuters anything laid to print by those bozos at GD. It is easily right on the outside edge of the top tier in the NYC/NJ Metro area and deserves to be rated ahead of QR & GC (and I grew up on QR!)

   Again, like you both mostly said, I hope the PCC members do absolutely NOTHING to react to this "journalistic jabberwocky." I hope the GD people never are allowed back and the course forever stays off their radar....

[JakaB]

I agree...keep all raters off all courses.  I just want to know with the Golfweek list having just as many terrible and utterly stupid choices why don't the Golf Digest guys cry like the little stuck pigs we seem to find from Golfweek.....I wish these guys would hang it up and like Brad Klein says...Get a life.

[Mike_Cirba]

I agree...keep all raters off all courses.  I just want to know with the Golfweek list having just as many terrible and utterly stupid choices why don't the Golf Digest guys cry like the little stuck pigs we seem to find from Golfweek.....I wish these guys would hang it up and like Brad Klein says...Get a life.

John,

The reason there wasn't a hue and cry about the GolfWeek listings is simply that they were very good, solid, and representative of the best in classic and modern architecture and courses.

I almost dared others to point out problems with the lists, but there was nary a peep.

Why don't you tell us what was wrong with them?

The Golf Digest rankings, on the other hand...are probably Ron Whitten's worst nightmare.

[JakaB]

Mike,

You are like a little child defending his neighborhood...I don't want to hurt the feelings of any of the nice people on this site that represent some of the over rated courses on the Golfweek list.  Unlike you they have a larger investment than the quassi national membership you claim though your intellectual property rights.  Call me tomorrow during working hours at 618-943-4716 and I will fill you in...

[Matt_Ward]

John:

Fair point.

How bout you list and explain your reasons the courses that are overrated by GolfWeek. I'd like to see your comments and rationale.

FYI -- I don't belong to any club for the reason it gives me total freedom to say what I want to say. If others are handicapped by that situation they should remove themselves as raters for such courses.

[T_MacWood]

I just read Ron Whitten's excellent article 'Is Tom Fazio Good for the Game?". I thought it was very fair and honest piece...criticizing the average GD rater as much as Fazio.

[JohnV]

This reminds me of an old SNL sketch where George Michael (played by Dana Carvey) defends his work, with a snear: "It might be a formula, but it bloody works."

That reminds me of something my boss said when we complained that there were still a lot of bugs in the software and we needed more time. "If s**t sells, sell s**t"  and no this wasn't Microsoft.

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