[Jeff_Mingay]

The authors write-up on French Lick is very interesting. It's great to see that the course has, in comparison to many others, been left reasonably wide open. What caught my attention though was the distances of the par 3 holes: 220, 195, 221, and 222. This leads me to belive that those tees have been extended back? Ross, from the impressions I've had, was brilliant at varying the distances of the one-shot holes on his courses. For example, Essex' play as follows:  #5 190 yards: open green. #7 160 yards: forced carry.#12 185 yards: forced carry.#17 221 yards: open green. John Morrisett:Do those one-shotters at French Lick have this variety?

[Ted_Sturges]

Jeff,The 16th at French Lick plays about 145 yards, and has a wild putting green.  While the other 3 all play at 200 yards or longer, they have different  looks and offer the golfer nice variety.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Glad to hear there remains variety in the one-shot holes at French Lick. But considering three of them play 200 yards or more, my instinct tells me that the tees have been lengthened.Any idea?

[John Morrissett]

Jeff--Very perceptive point.  As Ted states, the 16th at FL is a (much needed) short one.  The 4th is something like 195 uphill; the 6th 225 across a valley (with zero fairway to run the ball onto the green) to a two-level green; and the 13th is 220 across a valley to a three-level green that is open, but narrow, in front.Given normal wind conditions, the proper clubs would be something like 3-iron, 4-wood, 4-wood and 8-iron.  The sameness in club selection on the 6th and 13th doesn't bother me too much since each is a super hole and neither reminds you of the other.  The 4th is a little frustrating -- there is no need for it to be that long.  The 4th could nicely fill in the gap for a mid-iron par three.You raise a good point about the age of the tees.  The back tees on the 13th and 16th seem to be original tees.  The 4th is probably original, while the 6th looked like it may have been lengthened 10-15 yards.

[Tom_Egan]

My first round at French Lick probably predates that of anyone at this site -- 30-35 years ago.  My memory is that the back tee on #6 was not there at that time.  The current middle tee was, I believe, the original.  This would make the hole play at about 200-205 yards.  I certainly agree that #6 and #13 provide two distinctly different "looks".  Aside from other differences, the larger dimension of #6 is side to side, whereas it is front to back on #13.  Also contributing to the different look is the fact the the green on #6 is the almost exclusive focal point from the tee, whereas on #13 the green is on the rise of a hill with acres and acres of surrounding property visible.I love #'s 6, 13 and 16 but feel that #4 is the weak link.  Quite hard but not that memorable. (or maybe it just suffers by comparison).

[Larry Beisel]

Tom - I agree that 4 is the weak link. I've also felt that while both 6 and 13 are great long par 3's they seem to both be into the wind every time I've played them! As you know they are parallel and at the same end of the property, and I've read that the prevailing wind is a headwind on these 2. A shorter original tee on one of these 2 would thus make that much more sense. I also have a question as to the original bunkers on 16. The old aerial photo in the clubhouse seems to show 8 very narrow and long bunkers - 2 deep on each of the 4 sides of the green. When I last played it I recall only 1 narrow slit of a bunker, possibly only a couple of yards wide, across the front of the green. Was it any different when you first played it?

[Jeff_Mingay]

The 6th seems to be the victim of additional length: 225 yds. across a valley with no fairway to run the ball onto the green doesn't sound like Ross -- although, is there room in front for fairway to potentially be mowed? The "side-to-side" dimension there that Tom describes would also suggest that the hole was intended for a shorter club originally -- although I must admit I'm speculating for the sake of fun. (I haven't seen the hole.) An adjustment to the distance at the 6th may bring back the variety of the par 3's at French Lick (?): #4: 195 yards (although the "uphill" must make it 200 yds. +?)#6: (reduce down, to say) 185 yds. -- forced carry#13: 220 yards -- widen the approach#16: 145 yards -- to a good greenThat looks more like Donald Ross!

[John Morrissett]

Tom Egan--Thanks for the history and good observations about the 6th and 13th.Larry--I think you are right about the wind.  The one day I played there they were both into a 10-15 mph breeze.  As much as I agree that on paper FL needs more variety in the par threes, I would be reluctant to shorten either 6 or 13 that much.  While the 6th can be ridiculous as you might have to hit a driver some days, the hole is almost bigger than life and I would miss that thrill if the hole became "just" a long-iron.  (I know it's not the same, but it would be a little like building a 190 tee on 5 at Pine Valley.)If I can brag, my wife birdied the hole, hitting driver from the middle tee!Jeff--There is no room for fairway on the 6th -- the green sits just beyond an abrupt rise.  If given the opportunity, I would just play the 4th hole shorter -- about 170 yards.  Instead of arguing about tees I suppose we could just play those holes from what we think is an appropriate distance!

[Jeff_Mingay]

John -- Really, what am I writing about? I've got these opinions about the course and I haven't seen it. That's pretty bold, eh?But this little discussion has certainly sparked my interest in French Lick more than ever.  Thanks, Jeff

[John Morrissett]

Jeff--Don't worry -- a lack of first-hand knowledge has never stopped a Morrissett from having  a strong opinion!

[Jeff_Mingay]

John -- Thanks. Now I know I'm in the right company!

[Tom_Egan]

One other historical tidbit that just occurred to me:The fifth hole at French Lick was a par 5 when I first played it.  It was played from the tips of the current tee but as a par 5.  Along with the change in #14 from a par 5 to a par 4, note the par, now 70, was previously 72.A little bit darker piece of history was that Joe Louis lost a very big chunk of what he got for whipping Max Schmeling, et.al. at FL.  Plenty of game and heart -- bad first tee management.

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