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Mike_Cirba

Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2004, 03:19:07 PM »
Rich;

Not that anyone would ever remotely consider me a "Main Liner", but still...I ain't biting.   ;)

Actually, it may be one hole that would be improved by technology, and I'll be interested to see how the long-hitting US Amateur players tackle it...in other words, will they try to drive up over the bunkers and risk running through the fairway and OB?

tonyt

Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2004, 03:20:59 PM »
I hate the ideal of an easy opener as an automatic choice. Especially because it can screw the players who hit off #10 in a two tee start. Open the course with a good hole, short or long, difficult or easy. Just a good hole.

JWL

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2004, 03:38:32 PM »
Two that come to mind:

Pinehurst National
     Tough hole but options off the tee, do not not demand great distance.   Nice green site and demanding green.   The fact that I birdied it in a playoff to qualify for the Senior Open in my first try is just coincidental.  LOL  ;)

Hokulia
     Unbelivably gorgeous view high tees spanning 180 view of Pacific Ocean behind the hole.   The fact that you can "top" the shot 225 yards often helps out a few distracted players, and that can't be all bad.   Strong hole, fantastic views.

JSlonis

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Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2004, 03:39:48 PM »
Rich,

I did mean in 2. ;D

We played 36 in one day at Dornoch on our trip.  I had the good fortune of having Alex as my caddy for the first round.  He was a wonderful guy to have on the bag for my virgin tour around the links.  When I walked into the clear through the gorse and brush from the 2nd green to the 3rd tee, the view below took my breath away.  Anyone that doesn't get a rush of emotion from that vista does not appreciate life, let alone golf.

JWL,

Don't you know you can be prosecuted for calling it "Pinehurst" National?  ;)   It cracks me up that the Pinehurst Resort took the action it did and now the courses had to drop Pinehurst from their name.  Now it's The National, and The Plantation.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2004, 03:43:13 PM by JSlonis »

JWL

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2004, 03:49:41 PM »
JSlonis
I suppose technically your are correct, but all my plans and field books have Pinehurst National all over them.   So I am having trouble making the switch!  ::)

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2004, 04:00:07 PM »
JWL,

I say the old names all the time as well.  I just brought it up because it makes me laugh. ;D

Brian_Gracely

Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2004, 04:06:03 PM »
Don't you know you can be prosecuted for calling it "Pinehurst" National?  ;)   It cracks me up that the Pinehurst Resort took the action it did and now the courses had to drop Pinehurst from their name.  Now it's The National, and The Plantation.

The Plantation went into Chapter 11 last year and was purchased by Arnold Palmer (who did the original design).  It is now called the Mid South Club.  I got the membership sales pitch when I was down in Pinehurst Village a few weeks ago.  They said they are looking forward to being able to add 200-400 new houses to the course....yeah, that'll get me to sign up!!   :o  

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2004, 06:06:13 PM »
RJ Daley,

    I found that the first hole (tee shot) at Sutton Bay was far from ideal. It did certainly get the senses going, eagerly anticipating the next 17 holes. However, from a golfing standpoint, the hole lacked any sense of depth perception. Given the scale of the site, and the substantially elevated tee shot, it was an uncomfortable shot, and in my opinion, not an ideal starter. I had assumed a drive aimed at the hill which protrudes into the fairway from the right hand side would land safely, because I had nothing else to go on, and I was wrong. I feel a fairway bunker set into the left edge of the hill would do wonders at imporving the depth perception of the golfer. This of course is not a pre-requisite in golf design, but on an opening tee shot, at a site of such scale it would be more than welcome.

Tyler Kearns

Matt_Ward

Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2004, 06:11:38 PM »
JWL:

I saw your post on the 1st at Hokuli'a and just have to say it's a darn fine hole but one that is quite demanding -- maybe a bit more difficult than an opener should be.

I don't doubt players will get a mental boost by having a downhill shot but the hole is well protected by fairway bunkers and the green is neatly angled with a frontal bunker as well. I also agree with you regarding the scenery -- just standing on the tee box and gazing at the sights and sounds of the facility is a real enjoyable experience.

I'll suggest another Nicklaus design that may have some strong possibilities -- the 1st at Geronimo at Desert Mountain. Here you have a par-5 that can be reached in two with two good pops and at the same time provides enough width for the higher handicap player to start his round without being thoroughly intimidated -- that happens later in the round. ;D

One other thing -- you can't beat the view from the championship tee box at Geronimo's starting hole.

James_Livingston

Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2004, 06:51:37 PM »
Royal Melbourne East - a fantastic short downhill 333 yd par four.  A much better hole than the opener on the West, about the only good thing you could say for that one is that it gets the field away.

JWL

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #60 on: February 18, 2004, 07:16:49 PM »
 ;)  Matt
I have to agree with you on Geronimo, and while you are at DM, Chiracahua's first, while again more demanding than most, is also loaded with great scenery.
If it is scenery that gets your attention, then the first holes, whether you play the mountain or arroyo nines at Palmilla, are pretty nice also.   The tee shot and views from the little mountain across the sea is spectacular.    The clubhous was supposed to be on top there also, but was never constructed.

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #61 on: February 18, 2004, 08:04:09 PM »
 8)

I like the opening at La Cantera in San Antonio (2nd to last Weiskof/Morrish design), a 665 yd opener with a grand regional view, about a 125 foot drop to the landing zone, dogleg right.. you get to take two good swings before getting real serious with your approach to a large, moderately protected green.  

Down you go..  powering out of the blocks, then the second is a two shotter that demands control and accuracy to get on the green in regulation.  Escape the undulating green and then get ready for a long iron one shotter to the tiered third green.  

If you've gotten off to a good start on these holes, its because you're in control.  The rest of the course seems to try to entice you into taking chances and crashing on the rocks.. (after all, La Cantera means the quarry)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2004, 08:05:51 PM by Steve Lang »
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

EAF

Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #62 on: February 19, 2004, 12:02:36 AM »
I can't believe that no one has nominated the 1st hole of Bethpage Black. It is the best opening hole I have played. The elevated tee is dramatic and the dogleg fairway forces every player to think strategically and hit accurately. The green is hidden from view on the tee, which adds to the 1st tee jitters. Unlike most 1st tees, you can also see the 18th green and the 17th hole from the tee.

From the fairway (hopefully) it is possible to bounce a shot onto the smallest green (complete with a false front) on the course that is guarded by deep bunkers on both sides. From the fairway, players get a view of the difficult 15th and 16th holes also. This adds to the anticipation and challenge of the Black.

The design of the 1st is excellent because it challenges all players hit three quality shots to make a birdie. However, a short or right tee shot will force a player to recover well to salvage par or bogey. The hole also fits perfectly with the overall course strategic elements, which is more important than "degree of difficulty".

Other nominees I'd consider would be:
Spyglass Hill (I don't really like a par 5 opener though).
Devil's Pulpit (Wow!)
Long Cove (Options!)
Harbour Town (thread the needle)

The first hole should set the tone and clarify the designer's vision. The 1st at Bethpage Black is one of the best in golf.

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2004, 02:04:14 AM »
I admit to being a fan of first holes that get you into the rhythm of the course, that prepare you for what comes on the following 17.

I don't generally like an overly difficult 1st, or a par 5, but that's probably just prejudice since I don't warm up and always play like crap on the first couple holes.

The mention of the first at Prestwick is wonderful as far as preparing for you for the rest of the course, if ever a first hole showed you what you'd face for 17 more holes, that's it.  I really like Harbour Town's first as well, for similar reasons.

But I can't for the life of me understand the nominations for TOC's 1st, other than sentimental reasons.  Don't get me wrong, I love TOC, but the first is the odd duck on that course, feels like it doesn't belong.  The way the rest of that course plays, playing an iron off the first tee is just wrong on so many levels I can't even begin to name them.  Then you have the Burn on the second, which while interesting, is also a shot you don't see anywhere else on the course.  Swap it for Jubilee's first and then the pieces would all fit together much more nicely!
« Last Edit: February 19, 2004, 02:06:47 AM by Doug Siebert »
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Chris Perry

Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #64 on: February 19, 2004, 04:03:03 AM »
I've seen Princeville and Spyglass mentioned, and I'd agree with those, but I gotta go farther with EAF's honorable mention and go with the Devil's Pulpit.

What other opening hole gives you multiple options off the tee, and let's you see everything the hole has to offer from the tee, as well as 40 miles of panorama behind it, a choice to gamble and take a good 100 yards off your approach, and gives you one of the tallest buildings in the world as an aiming target?  

Case in point:


ForkaB

Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #65 on: February 19, 2004, 04:35:27 AM »
OK, I've gotta put in yet another plug for Painswick.

This is THE most extreme hole on a course filled with wet dreams for X-game golfers.  224 yards, and I am willing to bet that in the 120 shots at that cherry in May, nobody from the GCA contingent will find the green.  By the end of the 3 days, the old roman fort and/or neolithic pit which guards the front of the green will be littered with the bodies and souls of our best and brightest......

The fact that Painswick closes with a completely bland hole (as detailed by Robin Hiseman on another thread) just gives the course perfect assymetry, which is all one can and should expect from Painswick.

Shane Gurnett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #66 on: February 19, 2004, 04:49:21 AM »
I think the Melbourne Sandbelt has a number of very fine opening holes, including:

- Metropolitan, long enough to require two solid shots, best line in is close the fairway bunker left, but ample room right for the slicers who need some width to get their confidence up.

-Kingston Heath, long testing hole which would have been a simple par 5 in the early years, now a testing par 4 but with plenty of width. The green is open to recieve all manner of shots, but the putting surface has many subtle breaks to trap the unwary player. Most players would be satisfied with a 4 to open with, but the bunkering front right of the green results in many 6's.

I think ample width is a key factor, to get the field away and moving, whilst still allowing for a strategic line for those bold enough to chance the luck so early in the round.

Shane

Donnie Beck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #67 on: February 19, 2004, 11:48:01 AM »
I have to go with the 1st at NGLA.

Paul Perrella

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Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #68 on: February 19, 2004, 03:29:43 PM »
    One of my favorite starting holes is on one of my favorite front nines, Portstewart.
     Two other short starting holes that come to mind are the CC of Rochester and Fenway. Whats not to like at Fenway, let er rip right out of the box.

THuckaby2

Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #69 on: February 19, 2004, 03:36:20 PM »
Paul:  GREAT call re Portstewart!  Does that hole set up what is to come or what?  And is there an opener with more scenic beauty?  Some say the best of the best of openers is Machrihanish but it's hard to believe it has much on Portstewart.  Just thinking about that hole brings a smile.

TH

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #70 on: February 19, 2004, 04:15:34 PM »
To my way of thinking, you couldn't possibly improve on the first hole of the first course -- The Old Course.

What more could you want? Per TEPaul's requirements, it's short enough and wide enough that anybody -- with the possible exception of Ian Baker-Finch in the depths of a slump -- can get off to a decent start (on my one round at TOC, I dribbled a drive off the tee with a rental driver, but still managed to complete the hole without further disaster.)

The first tee at TOC just drips with tradition. You have the most famous clubhouse in golf behind you, the most famous downtown in golf to your left, the most famous firth in golf to your right, and nothing between you and the green but a little burn that you can't even really see, so there's no intimidation factor. Plus, as you're setting off on what will always be a special, memorable experience, you get to see (and share a giant fairway with) players completing their special, memorable experience on the adjoining 18th.

The soul of golf is right there on the first hole at TOC.



"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Pat Brockwell

Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #71 on: February 19, 2004, 05:21:04 PM »
The best 1st is the one you're on.

Jeff Fortson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #72 on: February 19, 2004, 05:55:33 PM »
#1 Shinnecock


Jeff F.
#nowhitebelt

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #73 on: February 19, 2004, 06:05:20 PM »
Those, above, who have chosen opening holes on British courses have referred to Macrihanish, Worplesdon (great to see that mentioned), Royal West Norfolk, Royal County Down and so on.  I agree with them all. Royal Birkdale has a great opening hole (hardly pretty, it must be said) and the 1st at Royal Liverpool is about as intimidating as they come. Miss the 1st green at the par-3 opener at Royal Lytham and you can be looking at dropping at least two shots.  But I fancy that my favourite opening holes in British golf are at Sandiway and St George's Hill.  They both show you everything.  You have to drive from a high tee across deep valleys and make as much progress as you can up the far side.  There's little pressure - you could duff it, and as long as you clear 100 yards of rough you will be in play.  But it's all about position to leave a practicable shot in to the green.  Get the angle wrong at St George's Hill and you have to foozle the ball over a great, heathery ridge to try to find the green.  At Sandiway you can apparently drive for ever (and some do) but those of us who do not drive for ever must avoid two very well-positioned bunkers on the right hand side of the fairway (the direct line) and in doing so we err to the left, immediately putting the green out of reach.  Simple strategy.

But in the end, there is also that wonderful sense of anticipation of what is to come that makes even a quite ordinary opening hole something special - that at The Old Course, for instance.

Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best first holes?
« Reply #74 on: February 19, 2004, 08:19:00 PM »
I have stood on the first tee of nearly every course mentioned so far. Many great choices.

However, there is no first hole which  introduces a course to you more completely, allows you to get off the tee uneventfully, ignites your thoughts for your second and/or third like a light switch quicker and, of course, takes more of your breath away  :o than:

                 #1 Sand Hills Golf Club
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

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