[James Clifford]

Seeing Ben Crenshaw's name in an earlier post reminds me of an interesting tale that I have been quoting as gospel (but it may or may not be true).When Crenshaw last won the Masters, he and his caddie referenced no yardages - everything was by feel. It was a "hard seven" or an "easy six" or a "low wedge with check" etc. Did Crenshaw really play the last round  by pure feel? It is fantastic if he did.I played with guy at Royal Melbourne once who coming off the course said "it's a pity they don't have yardage markers." How wrong was he? What other clubs are blessed with no yardage indicators? Should yardage markers be banned full-stop?

[George Blunt]

James, apparently Peter Thomson also hates distance markers and was loathe to install them on the sprinkler heads at our course, where he is the consulting architect.  Rumour has it that he only relented when a committee member suggested that his line of thought would demand no distance markers anywhere on the course, including the tee boxes and score card!Personally I think distance markers are fine.  When they were installed on our sprinkler heads, which are basically at 20 metre intervals, the pace of play improved slightly as players no longer paced off distances from landmarks.  I don't think that you can get away from a golfer's basic desire to know how far it is to the hole. This knowledge will not allow the player to judge wind, firmness of greens and  approaches. Distance markers will level the playing field for newcomers to a course when dealing with blind shots, dead ground and so on.  What does the rest of the panel think?

[JohnV]

I think it is fine to play that way, but only if you are familiar with the course (or have a caddie who is.)   But, when you are playing a course for the first time it is really nice to have yardages easily determinable.  The Kirby markers are good and probably sufficient for most courses.  For those of you not from North America, these are green rubber popup markers set on both sides of the fairway every 25 yards from 250 to 50 yards.  They are very unobtrusive, but easy to find.I always have to laugh when I see a 20 handicap who couldn't hit it within 10 yards of the correct distance consistently pace off those two yards to the sprinkler head.  If you ever play golf with Ron Read, the USGA's Western Regional Manager, he'll try to get you to go for a bet where you add $1 to the kitty each time you look at a yardage marker.  Don't do it, he can't reach any par 4 in 2 so he is usually hitting driver, 3-wood, chip or pitch while you're sitting out there wondering if it is a 5-iron or 6-iron to the green.

[Ran Morrissett]

That sounds like a great game (or should I say racket) that Ron Read has going. I wish more people would play it.George and John V. - I maintain that if yardage markers had never been invented or better yet the USGA/R&A made them illegal, that golf would benefit. Once you got off the drug-like dependency to know just how far you are, and started to visualise the shot by feel, perception, the enjoyment/satisfaction level would increase.Can you imagine playing with Hogan as he stared down a shot while waiting for you to  scamper off to find a yardage stake?Somerset Hills in New Jersey has no markers other than you are "157 from the cherry tree" kind of thing. I don't know trees so I had a ball. Please take note: there will be no yardage markers at The Carthage Club.

[Scott Krause]

I agree with Ran. We have become accustomed to "needing" to know exact distance. We should get away from yardage markers all together. Doing so would be a small but significant step to returning golf  to a simpler game.

[DBE]

Ran, when did SHCC eliminate the yardages from the sprinkler heads?  I haven't played there since the end of May, but they were on them then.  Pine Valley numbers every sprinkler head on each hole.  The caddies (and some players) have a card that gives the yardage from each sprinkler head to its respective green center.  Why make it so complicated?  I like the colorful oval markers (100, 150 and 200 yard increments) Treedinah has--they show up well for televised events, particularly when the MetLife Snoopy I is there.Relying on yardage markers has become habit for anyone who plays on a course that has them.  I'm afraid the governing bodies aren't going to roll back the Rule.  Heck, we're lucky they still think range finders and carts patched into satelite tracking systems that give up to the second yardages to the green and drink stand are taboo....but not for posting your score for handicap computation, naturally.

[George Blunt]

To Ran:Would you be happy with no distance markers anywhere, including the scorecard?  It could be fun if you simply had 18 boxes numbered  1-18 and you filled in the blanks.  Each hole could have a name, but the ones that gave a hint, like "long" or "shorty" would have to have their name changed by deedpoll for giving away too much information to the golfer and making the game too easy.The abolition of par would simplify the game as would the reintroduction of sheep to mow the fairways.  We could get rid of fairway watering to turn your courses brown again and make the club professional play in a coat and tie.  Hickory shafts and gutta balls would stop us from driving the ball ? yards making a mockery of traditional course design.  Tiger Woods would then only be able to reach a par??? hole measuring ???yards in 3 strokes, his long putt from feet would miss by inches and he would then write down a 4 on his card.  Sounds very traditional, but have we made any progress?

[JohnV]

I would be perfectly happy to go back to no yardage markers, if I always had a caddie who was so familiar with the course that I didn't need them as they had in the old days.  But if a course has caddies caddies these days they are usually high school bag carriers who are only doing it because they might get an Evans Scholarship (not that that is a bad thing) or to play the course once a week.  Therefore, especially when I am at a resort or out of town, I need some kind of help and yardage markers or a book are the best form (better than a cart with a GPS.)I tend not to look at the yardages much at my home courses simply because I've played them so much, I've got them memorized.  When someone else goes looking for a yardage, I can tell them where the sprinkler is and what the yardage is every time.  If the sprinklers weren't marked, I would have figured out the yardages from trees or bunkers myself, so what difference does it make.As for the story of Ben Crenshaw, he probably knows Augusta so well, he could probably tell you the distance from any tree on the course.

[David Staebler]

Three of the most enjoyable rounds I played this year were at courses with no yardage indicators other than at the tees.  All of them I was playing for the first time.  When I was a kid we didn't have yardage markers.  I learned to play by feel.  I also learned to step off my own yardages when it really mattered so preparation meant something more and different than it does today.  I was suprised how easily I was able to return to and trust the way a shot looked and felt.Do I use sprinkler head yardages now?  Of course, but it is not the end of the world if they're not.  In fact it's pretty special when you're on your own.

[George_Bahto]

National Golf Links has no yardage markers

[Ted_Sturges]

One of the most enjoyable rounds of golf I've ever had was at the Mid Ocean Club.  The club is special for many reasons, but 2 of them are (1) No irrigation in the fairways, and (2) No yardage markers.  I had a wonderful caddy who came to the range and watched me hit the ball (and paid attention to how far I hit each club), and he simply handed me clubs all day.  He would add "hit it hard", or "smooth one" etc.  I remember thinking that day that some of the guys I've played with at my club over the years simply wouldn't have been able to play at Mid Ocean because they are so married to the yardage markers.I believe that Mr. Nicklaus was the first golfer to prepare yardage books for tournament play.  I believe that this bit of "progress", along with all the television time Mr. Nicklaus enjoyed over the years as he surveyed every putt from 3 directions, trained a nation to play slow and slower golf.  I've often wondered if we wouldn't still play golf in 3 hours if Chi Chi had been a great putter!  

[DBE]

Ted,I hate to disappoint you but, the range balls at Mid Ocean are deflated in order to stay on the short range they have.  I hit a five iron about 140 yards there.  Normally it's 180-190. Mid Ocean to me is a wonderful place.   Jack Nicklaus was not the first player to use (his own) yardages to play.  Gene Andrews and Deane Beman showed JWN during their amateur days how to do it and he merely carried it onto the Tour.  He does play slow, doesn't he?

[Ran Morrissett]

To George B:I support having yardage noted on a scorecard and on the tee (so that you don't have to play with a damn scorecard, which I HATE doing).For instance, at the 7th hole at Kapulua, I find it fascinating to play a hole I know for a fact is 485 yards long with a driver, six iron. Or better yet at St. Andrews, knowing I have hit a driver, punch 4 iron to cover 320 yards at the 10th and then driving the 18th green some 360 yards away. The details of each shot within a hole would be deadly boring but the "overview" I find interesting.

[Ted_Sturges]

David,I only hit my 5 iron about 140 anyway, so it seemed normal to me!My caddie did watch me warm up, so he must have factored the deflated balls into his clubbing decisions.  I had a great day there, and look forward to my next visit to Tuckers Town.  (Although my day there was not apparently as good as one of the famed Morrissett golfers who apparently aced the 230 yard 13th hole-a wonderful rendition of the biarritz hole).  

[George Blunt]

Not to belittle the caddy industry, but isn't a caddie a moving yardage marker?

[Robert_Walker]

I think everyone will surprise himself by   his own sense of distance by simply looking at the target and guessing the exact distance. More often than not, he will be very close to the actual.

[peter_p]

Two courses I recently played with no yardage markers- Woodhall Spa and Kingston Heath.I think it would be interesting if a private club had an annual  no-yardage tournament, where yaradge books are banned and sprinkler heads covered. I guess I wouldn't rip out the grown in 150 markers, tho

[Jim_Nagle]

Ron Forse and I were fortunate enough this spring to play NGLA, before opening for the season.  No scorecards were available and obviously no markers in the field.  All we had to go on was a photocopy out of "Scotlands Gift" with yardages from 1928, which was not much help.  We would not have enjoyed it so much had we been worried about how far to hit the ball.  It was all by feel. On the contrary two days later we played Shinnecock with Pete Smith's son-in-law as caddie and he knew every distance to a t, and we shot much worse, oh but what fun we still had.

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