[Jimmy Muratt]

I know everyone is probably sick of rankings right about now, but I just saw this and wanted to pass it on..... Some interesting placement (surprise, surprise) for a few courses....

America's Best -- Residential Golf Courses

1. Wade Hampton Club
Cashiers, N.C.
Tom Fazio, 1988

2. The Golf Club at Cuscowilla
Eatonton, Ga.
Ben Crenshaw/Bill Coore, 1998

3. The Rim
Payson, Ariz.
Tom Weiskopf, 1998

4. Black Diamond Ranch (Quarry Course)
Lecanto, Fla.
Tom Fazio, 1988

5. Forest Highlands (Canyon Course)
Flagstaff, Ariz.
Tom Weiskopf/Jay Morrish, 1989

6. Mayacama Golf Club
Santa Rosa, Calif.
Jack Nicklaus, 2001

7. Long Cove
Hilton Head, S.C.
Pete Dye, 1982

8. Estancia
Scottsdale, Ariz.
Tom Fazio, 1995

9. Castle Pines Golf Club
Castle Rock, Colo.
Jack Nicklaus, 1981

10. Quintero
Peoria, Ariz.
Rees Jones, 2000

11. Old Tabby Links
Beaufort, S.C.
Arnold Palmer/Ed Seay, 1994

12. Kiawah (Cassique Course)
Kiawah Island, S.C.
Tom Watson, 2000

13. Crosswater
Sunriver, Ore.
Bob Cupp/John Fought, 1995

14. The Mirabel Club
Scottsdale, Ariz.
Tom Fazio, 2001

15. The Powder Horn Golf Club
Sheridan, Wyo.
Dick Bailey, 1997

16. Forest Creek
Southern Pines, N.C.
Tom Fazio, 1996

17. Stone Canyon
Tucson, Ariz.
Jay Morrish/Ken Kavanaugh, 1998

18. Winchester Golf Club
Meadow Vista, Calif.
Robert Trent Jones Sr./Robert Trent Jones Jr., 2000

19. Lake Las Vegas (SouthShore Course)
Henderson, Nev.
Jack Nicklaus, 1995

20. The Gallery
Tucson, Ariz.
John Fought/Tom Lehman, 1998

21. Troon Golf & Country Club
Scottsdale, Ariz.
Tom Weiskopf/Jay Morrish, 1985

22. Johns Island West
Vero Beach, Fla.
Tom Fazio, 1989

23. Mountain Lake
Lake Wales, Fla.
Seth Raynor, 1917

24. Quarry La Quinta
La Quinta, Calif.
Tom Fazio, 1994

25. Forest Highlands (Meadow Course)
Flagstaff, Ariz.
Tom Weiskopf/Jay Morrish, 1999

26. Lahontan Golf Club
Truckee, Calif.
Tom Weiskopf, 1999

27. The Preserve
Carmel Valley, Calif.
Tom Fazio, 2000

28. Colleton River (Nicklaus Course)
Hilton Head, S.C.
Jack Nicklaus, 1992

29. Belfair Golf Club (West Course)
Hilton Head, S.C.
Tom Fazio, 1996

30. Old North State Club (Uwharrie Point)
Albemarle, N.C.
Tom Fazio, 1992

31. TPC at Snoqualmie Ridge
Snoqualmie, Wash.
Jack Nicklaus, 1999

32. Ocean Hammock
Palm Coast, Fla.
Jack Nicklaus, 2000

33. TPC at Sugarloaf
Duluth, Ga.
Greg Norman, 1997

34. Corde Valle Golf Club
San Martin, Calif.
Robert Trent Jones Jr., 2000

35. Southern Highlands Golf Club
Las Vegas
Robert Trent Jones Sr./Robert Trent Jones Jr., 1999

36. Troon North (Monument)
Scottsdale, Ariz.
Tom Weiskopf/Jay Morrish, 1990

37. Kiawah Island (River Course)
Kiawah, S.C.
Tom Fazio, 1995

38. Montreux Golf & Country Club
Reno, Nev.
Jack Nicklaus, 1997

39. Las Campanas (Sunrise Course)
Santa Fe, N.M.
Jack Nicklaus, 1993

40. The Virginian
Bristol, Va.
Tom Fazio, 1993

41. Desert Highlands
Scottsdale, Ariz.
Jack Nicklaus, 1984

42. Riverfront Golf Club at Harbor View
Suffolk, Va.
Tom Doak, 1999

43. Saddle Creek Golf Club
Cooperopolis, Calif.
Carter Morrish/Tad Buchanan, 1996

44. Tidewater Plantation
Myrtle Beach, S.C.
Ken Tomlinson, 1993

45. Tradition at La Quinta
La Quinta, Calif.
Arnold Palmer/Ed Seay, 1998

46. Haig Point
Daufuskie Island, S.C.
Rees Jones, 1986

47. Reynolds Plantation (Great Waters Course)
Greensboro, Ga.
Jack Nicklaus, 1992

48. Chaparral Pines
Payson, Ariz.
Gary Panks/David Graham, 1997

49. Rancho Sante Fe Country Club
Rancho Santa Fe, Calif.
Max Behr, 1927

50. Berkeley Hall (North Course)
Bluffton, S.C.
Tom Fazio, 2001

51. Belfair GC (East Course)
Hilton Head, S.C.
Tom Fazio, 1999

52. Vintage Club (Mountain Course)
Indian Wells, Calif.
Tom Fazio, 1981

53. Lake Las Vegas (Reflection Bay Course)
Henderson, Nev.
Jack Nicklaus, 1998

54. Lake Nona Golf Club
Orlando, Fla.
Tom Fazio, 1984

55. Broken Top Golf Club
Bend, Ore.
Tom Weiskopf/Jay Morrish, 1993

56. Desert Mountain (Geronimo Course)
Scottsdale, Ariz.
Jack Nicklaus, 1989

57. Desert Mountain (Chiricahua Course)
Scottsdale, Ariz.
Jack Nicklaus, 1999

58. Reynolds Plantation (Oconee Course)
Greensboro, Ga.
Rees Jones, 2000

59. Colleton River (Dye Course)
Hilton Head, S.C.
Pete Dye, 1998

60. Old Marsh
Palm Beach Gardens, Fla.
Pete Dye, 1988

61. Rivers Edge
Shallotte, N.C.
Arnold Palmer/Ed Seay, 1999

62. PGA Golf Club at PGA Village (Dye Course)
Port St. Lucie, Fla.
Pete Dye, 1999

63. Grande Dunes Golf Club
Myrtle Beach, S.C.
Roger Rulewich, 2001

64. Greenbrier (Old White Course)
White Sulphur Springs, W.Va.
Charles Blair Macdonald/Seth Raynor, 1915

65. Wachesaw Plantation
Wachesaw, S.C.
Tom Fazio/Andy Banfield, 1996

66. Reynolds Plantation (National Course)
Greensboro, Ga.
Tom Fazio, 1997

67. Daniel Island
Charleston, S.C.
Tom Fazio, 2000

68. Desert Mountain (Renegade Course)
Scottsdale, Ariz.
Jack Nicklaus, 1987

69. Desert Mountain (Cochise Course)
Scottsdale, Ariz.
Jack Nicklaus, 1987

70. PGA West (Private Course)
La Quinta, Calif.
Jack Nicklaus, 1987

71. Big Horn Golf Club (Canyons Course)
Palm Desert, Calif.
Tom Fazio, 1998

72. Kingsmill Golf Club (River Course)
Williamsburg, Va.
Pete Dye, 1974

73. Vintage Club (Desert Course)
Indian Wells, Calif.
Tom Fazio, 1983

74. Bonita Bay (Sabal Course)
Bonita Springs, Fla.
Tom Fazio, 1998

75. Lake Jovita
Dade City, Fla.
Curt Sandness/Tom Lehman, 1999

76. The Crosby National Golf Club
Rancho Santa Fe, Calif.
Brian Curley/Lee Schmidt, 2001

77. Black Diamond Ranch (Ranch Course)
Lecanto, Fla.
Tom Fazio, 1996

78. Superstition Mountain
Superstition Mountain, Ariz.
Jack Nicklaus, 1998

79. Osprey Cove Golf Club
St. Marys, Ga.
Mark McCumber, 1990

80. Bonita Bay (Bay Island Course)
Bonita Springs, Fla.
Arthur Hills, 1980

81. Harbor Club
Greensboro, Ga.
Tom Weiskopf/Jay Morrish, 1991

82. World Golf Village (King & Bear Course)
Jacksonville, Fla.
Arnold Palmer/Jack Nicklaus, 2000

83. Serrano at El Dorado
El Dorado, Calif.
Robert Trent Jones Jr., 1996

84. Amelia Island Plantation (Long Point Course)
Amelia Island, Fla.
Tom Fazio, 1987

85. Desert Mountain (Apache Course)
Scottsdale, Ariz.
Jack Nicklaus, 1996

86. PGA Golf Club at PGA Village (South)
Port St. Lucie, Fla.
Tom Fazio, 1999

87. Golden Ocala Golf & Country Club
Ocala, Fla.
Ron Garl, 1986

88. Hammock Dunes
Palm Coast, Fla.
Tom Fazio, 1989

89. Landfall Country Club (Dye Course)
Wilmington, N.C.
Pete Dye, 1987

90. Landings at Skidaway Island
(Deer Creek Course)
Skidaway, Ga.
Tom Fazio, 1991

91. Sunriver Golf Club (Woodlands Course)
Sunriver, Ore.
Robert Trent Jones Jr., 1983

92. Estrella Mountain Ranch
Phoenix , Ariz.
Jackie Nicklaus, 1999

93. Indian River Club
Estero, Fla.
Ron Garl, 1995

94. Rancho La Quinta (Jones Course)
La Quinta, Calif.
Robert Trent Jones Jr., 1995

95. Treyburn Country Club
Durham, N.C.
Tom Fazio, 1990

96. Big Horn Golf Club (Mountain Course)
Palm Desert, Calif.
Arthur Hills, 1991

97. Tiburon
Naples, Fla.
Greg Norman, 1998

98. Cliffs at Glassy
Landrum, S.C.
Tom Jackson, 1994

99. Amelia Island Plantation (Links Course)
Amelia Island, Fla.
Pete Dye, 1973

100. Ford’s Colony (Blackheath Course)
Williamsburg, Va.
Dan Maples, 1998

[Doug Sobieski]

I'm struck by the fact that Muirfield Village doesn't qualify as a residential golf course!!!!

[Tom_Doak]

That's an interesting list, mainly because it shows just how few architects are really considered for development courses.  [I have only one listed, but that's not so bad, considering we've only ever done two courses with housing!]

As for the individual placing, The Rim at #3 is certainly the biggest surprise.

[John_Conley]

The Sabal course at Bonita Bay is interesting with its inclusion.  Last time I played there I didn't see any real estate component.  Ditto John's Island's West course.  Both are courses that are part of private clubs that have houses, but these two courses are "off-site".

[Mike Benham]

34. Corde Valle Golf Club
San Martin, Calif.
Robert Trent Jones Jr., 2000

? ? ? ?   Did the original master plan have Corde Valle as a Residential Community?

And why not Pasatiempo?

[THuckaby2]

Good questions, Mike.  Cordevalle jumped out at me as well.. if it once was a residential plan, it sure as hell is not now.  If those condos used to house guests count, then that ought to bring in Sand Hills and several others... Very curious.

And yes, where the heck is Pasatiempo, one of the founding fathers of all of this in the US?

TH

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Corde Valle has one but I am hard pressed to see any interaction with the course.

[THuckaby2]

Excellent tirade, Doyen I.  

Just do realize that to me including Cordevalle is as silly as the inclusion of Sand Hills would be - that's why I used it as an example.  NEITHER is even close to being a "residential" golf course.

Not that any of this really matters... raters remain dumbasses, especially those from GolfWeek!  

 

TH

[Mike Benham]

Excellent tirade, Doyen I.  

Just do realize that to me including Cordevalle is as silly as the inclusion of Sand Hills would be -

TH - Shows you what we know ...

[THuckaby2]

Mike - that pic proves what I thought - there are homes, but they are outside the confines of the golf course pretty far... course goes up into that valley, homes are all at the bottom left.  I just remembered from playing there seeing no houses while playing. But yeah, I guess it does qualify for the list!  In any case, the homes sure are closer than any homes to Sand Hills so as for my mention of that, well... never mind.  

Tom I - they are all dumbasses, every last one of them!  And your wisdom remains infallible.  

TH

[klangone]

Wow.....no Ford Plantation???  Or Wachesaw Plantation??  I am not a big residential/golf club fan, but those two plus Old Tabby not being in the top 5 is ludicrous.  This list is obviously an advertisement for some of these properties.  

I do agree with Wade Hampton though.

[RSLivingston_III]

After visiting a couple of friends with houses on the course, I was kind of thinking Pinehurst #2 should be on the list. Probably kind of high on the list, too. If the Old White is on there seems like #2 (and maybe #7) would qualify. What are the qualifications?
R3

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Would Pebble Beach be considered a residential golf course community?
Steve

[Brian_Gracely]

How can the list not be:

1 - Pine Valley - house next to #5 tee
2 - Cypress Point - houses along #2
3 - Pebble Beach - those look like house along #13 and #16
4 - Merion - what's that big thing next to #11 green?
5 - Pinehurst #2 - Ross lived off #3 fairway
6 - St.Andrews (Old Course) - plenty of residences along 18
7 - Oakland Hills - homes along two perimeters

[Matt_Ward]

As a dedicated observer of the AZ golf scene there is no way in hell that The Rim is #3 in the USA while the neighboring layout across the street -- Chapparal Pines -- is that far down the list.

The Rim is major league eye-candy and I don't doubt it cuts an impressive v-i-e-w and there are a few holes of serious note. However, the quality golf experience (hole-for-hole) resides with CP IMHO.

[SPDB]

That's (un?)believable. Fazio has nearly 30% of the top 100.
Talk about your core competency  

[Patrick_Mucci]

JimmyVA,

I was surprised that Old Marsh ranked so low.

I thought that it had previously gotten high marks amongst all comers and was once a top 100 golf course on GolfWeek's list of moderns.

In another thread about a golf course architecture magazine or periodical, the subject of advertising came up.
In reading the Golfweek Supplement on residential golf courses, a review of the cross section of the advertisers would seem to raise the spectre of a conflict of interest.

It did seem to carry the flavor of a marketing guide rather than a ranking of residential community's golf courses.

But, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[Tom_Doak]

I can see how they could omit Pine Valley (just a few houses) and Pebble Beach (nothing under $10 million).  But I just noticed that Harbour Town isn't on the list either, and I'm sure there are several more such omissions.  Crystal Downs is a housing development, too, and has about as many houses on the course as Wade Hampton does, which is to say not very many.

Of course we all know what this list really is ... just another list culled from the GOLFWEEK database, without any real thought behind it.  Last year it was the "top public and resort course" list which "rated" Pacific Dunes above Pebble Beach, by comparing the numbers of classical and modern courses which GOLFWEEK insists cannot be compared.

What I want to know is, why is no one howling over the pointlessness of producing such list fodder?  Could it be that too many of you are GOLFWEEK panelists and don't want to criticize the mother ship?

[Andrew Summerell]

Does Tom Fazio know how to design anything that doesn't involve houses  

[tonyt]

I'm with Doug; No Muirfield Village?

[Kelly_Blake_Moran]

I was underwhelmed by it, but it was sent to me as a gift, so I guess I should not be ungrateful.  Maybe Brad will come on and explain why we should care about it, and why it is important.  This should be interesting.

[THuckaby2]

What I want to know is, why is no one howling over the pointlessness of producing such list fodder?  Could it be that too many of you are GOLFWEEK panelists and don't want to criticize the mother ship?

Bingo, Tom.  All hell breaks loose over any GD amd GM list, but we get this drivel and it's basically silence.  Heck, to me it's ok.  But it also makes VERY clear where the allegiances here lie.  

TH

[A_Clay_Man]

I'd critisize'em but this seems totally different because it is obviously a marketing tool. Coming in the form of a supplemental issue it does not taint the "top 100" panel or even mentions if it is those panelists whose ballots they used to tabulate this list. Golfweek has so much less advertising than the other mags it would be expected that the need for a supplemental to enhance revenue is needed to sustain and compete. But I have no clue, surprise.

[JohnV]

Seems to me that given someones critcism of the house by the 4th green at Rustic Canyon it would qualify as a residential course for this list.

Did anyone see what the qualifications were?  Does the quality of the housing count or is just the golf courses.

[Casey Wade]

What gets me is that we are talking about residential communities.  Why would Belfair get 2 ratings along with others that have multiple courses.  To be true, this should be only one rating per residential community.  I think we all understand that they are fine courses w/out the residential community.  But I live in the The Woodlands, Texas where there is 117 holes of golf in a very well planned out "residential community" that became a city!  

Also how can you not have another master planned community like Weston Hills, near Fort Lauderdale?

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