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Ben Stephens

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2024, 04:11:05 AM »
The original Northampton GC designed by Willie Park jr - especially the Hills and Hollows section of the course. The current course is designed by Donald Steel at Harlestone on the Althorp Estate (home of the Spencer family - Diana Princess of Wales)

Oxhey Golf Club next door to Sandy Lodge - a Harry Vardon designed course who hosted a number of pro events before WW2


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxhey_Golf_Club

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2024, 05:30:21 AM »
The Machrie:


In 1988, my father arranged an exciting day trip for him, me and my brother to fly from Glasgow to Islay to play The Machrie. We took off in clear blue skies for the short flight west. Immediately offshore we flew above this dense fog bank, which didn't relent. The small Loganair plane did numerous laps of the airfield on Islay, before the pilot told us he was going to have to abandon and return to Glasgow. We headed back to my Dad's club at Hilton Park and played a slightly subdued afternoon round in the sunshine, fatigued by the jetlag.


It's the only time in my life I have been on a plane that has had to do that and I never got another chance to play Old Tom's original, before it was erased for the new Machrie. I haven't seen that either yet, 36 years after getting so close.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2024, 05:33:07 AM by Robin_Hiseman »
2024: RSt.D; Mill Ride; Milford; Notts; JCB, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (N), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Fran, Epsom, Casa Serena, Hayling, Co. Sligo, Strandhill, Carne, Cleeve Hill

Ben Stephens

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2024, 01:18:12 AM »
St Enodoc previous version with original Braid Holes which now part of the Holyhead course. There are images of the course design evolution in the clubhouse I didn't take any photos of them last time I was there.

Niall C

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2024, 08:09:02 AM »
The Machrie:


In 1988, my father arranged an exciting day trip for him, me and my brother to fly from Glasgow to Islay to play The Machrie. We took off in clear blue skies for the short flight west. Immediately offshore we flew above this dense fog bank, which didn't relent. The small Loganair plane did numerous laps of the airfield on Islay, before the pilot told us he was going to have to abandon and return to Glasgow. We headed back to my Dad's club at Hilton Park and played a slightly subdued afternoon round in the sunshine, fatigued by the jetlag.


It's the only time in my life I have been on a plane that has had to do that and I never got another chance to play Old Tom's original, before it was erased for the new Machrie. I haven't seen that either yet, 36 years after getting so close.


Robin


Mr Pedantic here. The Machrie was a Willie Campbell design and was subsequently altered a few times, not least by John McAndrew, once the pro at Cruden Bay. He redesigned about 6 greens (holes ?) in the 1920's. That said, I agree with your choice. I've never played Machrie and while I hear the new version is very good I'm in no hurry to see it.


Re Logan Air flights, I did the Machrihanish trip once. The plane was in the air for about 20 minutes each way. I remember the deals used to be £119 for the Machrihanish trip and £129 for the Islay (Machrie) trip. That included the flights to and from Glasgow, transfers to and from the course, your green fee plus soup and a sandwich after the round. Those were the days. 


Niall

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2024, 10:02:10 AM »

Re Logan Air flights, I did the Machrihanish trip once. The plane was in the air for about 20 minutes each way. I remember the deals used to be £119 for the Machrihanish trip and £129 for the Islay (Machrie) trip. That included the flights to and from Glasgow, transfers to and from the course, your green fee plus soup and a sandwich after the round. Those were the days. 

Niall


Machrihanish Dunes opened on the Tuesday after the 2009 Open. They put on a press trip, given the entire world golf media was in Ayrshire, and chartered a plane from Loganair to take us there, but from Prestwick, not Glasgow. I swear that from wheels up to down was ten minutes, and that included going out over the sea and turning around to approach the runway from the west, which surprised me given the massively long runway and the very small plane. It was the shortest flight I've ever taken.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

JC Urbina

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2024, 10:56:35 AM »
For me I would vote for Tupancy Links on the West End of Nantucket once owned by Oswald A Tupancy.


A few of the green remnants are still visible.  I am sure it was a wonderful walk with breathtaking views.


I don't think it needs to be recreated but I would have enjoyed it nonetheless!


NLE. but you can still walk some of the land forms.


It is now preserved open space.

Tim Gavrich

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2024, 12:11:39 PM »
Not that I think it would have been a word-beater but the O.G. Herbert Strong version of Indian Hills Golf Course in Fort Pierce, Fla., would have been nice to see. Its current form (rerouted in 2004) is pretty underwhelming.


The NLE Ponce De Leon course (D. Ross) up in St. Augustine sounds like it was fun, but it's all houses now.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Britt Rife

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2024, 01:19:01 PM »
Banks' Annapolis Roads all 36.


Definitely.  But how about Macdonald's original Gibson Island here in the Free State?  The views were probably quite nice, too.

Eric LeFante

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2024, 01:36:06 PM »


I would have loved to play the Greentree course on 17 acres and the original Deepdale course. And the original Gibson Island. And Palm Beach Winter Club looks like it was a gem.




I second Deepdale. A Macdonald / Raynor so close to the city with that membership would be really cool.

Colin Sheehan

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2024, 02:12:22 PM »
The New Haven Golf Club was once just two blocks away from my house, which began as nine holes in 1895 and expanded to 18 in 1899. It suffered a quick and miserable death in 1912 as it became enveloped by the rapidly-growing neighborhood.

Here's some info on the course. I love the hole names and a few years ago I made a commemorative card of the original nine during the 125th anniversary year.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bKqBwnLj1ihCRZiZ7
« Last Edit: November 12, 2024, 08:21:20 AM by Colin Sheehan »

Ryan Hillenbrand

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2024, 03:53:19 PM »
Midland Valley CC in St. Louis, Ross's only work in this area. Home club of Rogers Hornsby


Fell victim to the depression, bought and reopened as a resort course, and eventually sold and reopened as Meadowbrook CC as a primarily Jewish club of members denied access to Westwood CC. As the area became more crowded the club was moved farther west in the 60s, along with some apathy about a course designed by Donald Ross.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2024, 07:08:25 PM »
The original Machrie - pre Donald Steel. Especially, Mount Zion


When did that disappear?  I played there in 1983 and Mount Zion was long gone.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2024, 07:10:07 PM »
I've always wondered about the lost 9 holes at Uplands Golf & Country Club, A Stanley Thompson just north of Toronto, Ontario.  I grew up playing the 9 holes that remained, never knowing about the 18 hole history until many years later.  There is a VHS out there somewhere that was apparently played at the closing. (if you have copy let me know!)  I'm sure getting some time with Uplands' most famous member Lorne Rubenstein would help to fill in the gap.


I played with Lorne at Uplands ages ago, but he did not spend much time describing the nine holes that were gone, just one or two of them.  I got the impression that the existing holes were the most exciting part of it.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2024, 07:16:22 PM »
I'm not familiar with too many courses NLE but one that I have a soft spot for is Diablo Grande Ranch Course near Patterson, CA.  My dad helped construct it around 1995 or so and was the original Super for both courses.  I liked the Ranch Course much better than the Nicklaus "signature" Legends Course.
Luckily someone created the course for simulators on TGC19 and it plays like I remember


Wow.  I spent a day out there once looking at the undeveloped part of the property with a friend who was thinking about funding a third course.  There was some really dramatic land . . . narrow canyons just big enough for one hole . . . it reminded me a bit of Hindhead in the UK.  But as it turned out, they didn't even have enough water for the 36 holes they already had.  Is there anything left of it?

Niall C

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2024, 07:26:55 PM »
The original Machrie - pre Donald Steel. Especially, Mount Zion


When did that disappear?  I played there in 1983 and Mount Zion was long gone.


Tom


According to the history book the new holes came into play in 1979. It's a shame they didn't try to do a deal with the neighbouring farmer when they did the recent redesign. Apparently the landform is still there but just sits over the boundary of the current course.


Niall

Marty Bonnar

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #65 on: November 11, 2024, 08:07:08 PM »

1923 Plan with Mount Zion bottom left:




1979 Plan (Note Plan rotated - MZ would have been bottom right):





In all its majesty. Would that it could ever be reborn (renaissance’d, if you will!  ;D )




The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Simon Barrington

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #66 on: November 12, 2024, 12:56:35 PM »
Re. Machrie

We used to go to Machrie in the 90's and early 2000's for our University Golf Team reunions every year during Masters weekend, and it was a joy as Machrie was largely unknown and grossly under-visited. Special times and long weekends together.

Usually the flight LoganAir was from Glasgow in a Britten Norman Islander (flying caravan) and fortunately the pilots (having balanced the plane by moving us and our clubs around to do so, and giving the pre-flight briefing by simply turning around as there was no cockpit) managed not to make the error that (the then) Prince Charles famously made in landing downwind and overshooting the runway in a BAE jet!

Had the place pretty much to ourselves, and the course in its previous guise was unique and magnificent in having c.13 or more blind shots, and of course none were truly "blind" second time you played them.

In fact the abiding memory was even on first play it was very clear from the surrounding dunes where the line over such blind carries were. It was an anachronism but far better for being a precious and rare example of being so.

Great fun having course amost as our own, 36 or 54 a day, occasional 8 or 12-ball one-club short loops after drinks, great food and of course Islay Malts. Then drinking games watching the events unfold at Augusta. Norman's collapse under the inexorable pressure of Faldo was one of the more memorable ones.

The "8 before 8" challenge in tasting all 8 Islay Malts was a favourite, followed by great steaks and sticky toffee pudding!

For the abstemious and/or healthy, not many of those in our Team, early morning walks or runs along the incredible beach added to the weekend's charm.


Thanks for the great routing plans and image of "Mount Zion". Brought it all back, many holes are still engrained deep in the memory.

The property itself and adjacent land was, we understood, held by some serious Financial owners.

The Farm and surrounding land (where Mount Zion sat) was we believe owned by Bruno Schroder of the Schroders Banking firm.
Not sure if it still is in that family, but would expect so (they were not prone to selling assets) We heard it was largely a shooting estate.

The Hotel and Course was, as reported widely, bought by Gavin Davies (formerly of Goldman Sachs and UK Treasury)...there's certainly money in them thar dunes...

So still conceptually possible to renovate that great old hole, but would need both parties to acquiesce.

We have not returned since the new ownership and remodelling by David J. Russell, so cannot fairly comment or take a view.

But do understand from reports/press etc. that a great deal of the previously mentioned complete (or penal) blindness has gone and he has strived to look for strategic partial blindness which I'd love to return to see for myself.

Regardless of how good it is now, and I hope it retains a great deal of its previous charm, it is a bit of a shame as so few examples of consistent penal blindness across the majority of a course, like it was before echoing the "Victorian" age, remain.

But the course and Hotel did need to attract more visitors and perhaps the full-on "quirky" nature was a block to some...I think a great many on here would have loved it for what it was (but we are small compact bubble on here).
I'd be interested in the views of any who have played it more recently.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: November 12, 2024, 12:58:29 PM by Simon Barrington »

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #67 on: November 12, 2024, 03:02:50 PM »
I saw Machrie while the David Russell work was being done; I hadn't seen it before. So coming to it blind, as it were, I thought it was really rather good. But knowing that it was previously very much one of a kind, and now it was perhaps rather more sane and normal, I couldn't help but mourn a little.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

SL_Solow

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #68 on: November 12, 2024, 03:17:16 PM »
As a native of the Chicago area, I have always wondered what William Flynn's Mill Road Farm on the Lasker estate in Lake Forest would look like.  Highly rated by those who played it, Bobby Jones was said to have counted it among the top three in the USA.

Jason_Bernardon

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Re: Which NLE golf course would you like to see recreated and to play on?
« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2024, 08:38:44 PM »
I played with Lorne at Uplands ages ago, but he did not spend much time describing the nine holes that were gone, just one or two of them.  I got the impression that the existing holes were the most exciting part of it.


Tom,

Thanks for sharing that bit of information. You can barely see some of what remains among the partially developed mansion subdivision.   
I’ll have you know it's even narrower now than when you deemed it in your top 10 narrowest. The par-3 8th (formerly 17th) is still the highlight, but as you can imagine, could be much better.

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