Walking Only Municipal Courses

[Ben Hollerbach]

Outside of Bethpage Black, can anyone name a walking only municipal course?

Is the bootstrapped nature of these properties such that carts are a required revenue generator?

[Edward Glidewell]

I doubt the carts themselves are the main revenue concern (although they certainly help) for municipal courses -- it's that too many players wouldn't play at all without golf carts.


There are a lot of people who won't even play if it's carts on path.

[JLahrman]

Austin has the 9-hole Hancock Golf Course, which according to its website is where Harvey Penick caddied as a youngster.

https://www.austintexas.gov/department/hancock-course

I'm not sure if this was a COVID development, but when I played the course around 2020 or 2021, there was no pro shop. You just went up and paid for your round kind of the way you pay for a downtown parking spot, and you take your place in line. Very much the honor system. With no pro shop and no staff, obviously there are no carts. It's kind of a cool experience.

Not sure how it was pre-COVID, maybe it's always been this way or maybe this happened during the pandemic.

Since municipal courses don't technically have to pay their own way (as compared to privately owned public courses) it seems like they might have a greater likelihood of being walking only?

[Ben Hollerbach]

I doubt the carts themselves are the main revenue concern (although they certainly help) for municipal courses -- it's that too many players wouldn't play at all without golf carts.


There are a lot of people who won't even play if it's carts on path.

That's my line of thinking. If a muni charges something like $40 with a cart, would removing the cart from the course reduce rounds played to the point that each round would need to be bumped to $60 or even $80 a round to cover the loss?

[Matt Schoolfield]

I doubt the carts themselves are the main revenue concern (although they certainly help) for municipal courses -- it's that too many players wouldn't play at all without golf carts.


There are a lot of people who won't even play if it's carts on path.

That's my line of thinking. If a muni charges something like $40 with a cart, would removing the cart from the course reduce rounds played to the point that each round would need to be bumped to $60 or even $80 a round to cover the loss?

I know it's a cash flow concern in the Bay Area. SF leases it's muni courses to operators, and that's caused some issues with carts. Gleneagles SF, for example, has 5 (?) carts I think. You're expected to walk, but if you have a need, they'll give you a cart. The reason is that the lease holder is on the short end of the lease, and it's worth investing in new carts.
I also believe this is the case at Sharp Park, where last time I checked, they still use the gas-engine carts that are on their last legs.
The relationship between the municipality and the course will matter a lot in things like this.

[Tim Martin]

Buena Vista GC-9 hole course owned by the town of West Hartford, CT.

[Tom Dunne]

Isn't Chambers Bay walking-only?

[Tom_Doak]

I don't think you can have a true walking-only public course, because of the Americans with Disabilities Act, which requires all public facilities to accommodate disabled people.


That's why Bandon Dunes has to have a few carts for people in need, where Ballyneal or Stonewall do not have to.

[MCirba]

In a perfect world Cobbs Creek would be walking-only with medical exemptions, but that would minimally require a viable and vibrant caddie program, which I'd also love to see in a perfect world. 


Not sure if culturally either is possible these days without a legacy of being so.

[Pierre_C]

Isn't Chambers Bay walking-only?

Tom, yes.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Outside of Bethpage Black, can anyone name a walking only municipal course?

Is the bootstrapped nature of these properties such that carts are a required revenue generator?

The Old Course?  Lots of other courses in Scotland.

[Wayne_Kozun]

In a perfect world Cobbs Creek would be walking-only with medical exemptions, but that would minimally require a viable and vibrant caddie program, which I'd also love to see in a perfect world. 


Not sure if culturally either is possible these days without a legacy of being so.

Why would it require a caddie program?  Why not pull carts or electric caddies?  Would those not be viable there?

[PCCraig]

The Park in WPB, Florida is walking only before noon.

[MCirba]

In a perfect world Cobbs Creek would be walking-only with medical exemptions, but that would minimally require a viable and vibrant caddie program, which I'd also love to see in a perfect world. 


Not sure if culturally either is possible these days without a legacy of being so.

Why would it require a caddie program?  Why not pull carts or electric caddies?  Would those not be viable there?

Wayne,


Much like Bethpage Black, it's a vigorous walk with a few steep spots.   I've never taken a gas or electric cart there but have pushed my trolley (and carried before then) and it requires a decent amount of physical fitness.


Hope very much I'm wrong.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Wayne,

Much like Bethpage Black, it's a vigorous walk with a few steep spots.   I've never taken a gas or electric cart there but have pushed my trolley (and carried before then) and it requires a decent amount of physical fitness.

Hope very much I'm wrong.

But then do caddies make all that much of a difference?  If it is a tough walk then is it that much worse to have a bag on your back or a pull cart? 
My home club has a number of steep hills, including up to the 18th green and many of us walk and carry.  Many others use pull carts and electric caddies have become increasingly popular in the last four years.  And about 30-40% of rounds are played in riding carts.

[Joe_Tucholski]

There are a pair of Los Angles city muni executive courses, in Roosevelt and Penmar, that I'm pretty sure used to be walking only (can't recall seeing a cart).

[MCirba]

Wayne,

Much like Bethpage Black, it's a vigorous walk with a few steep spots.   I've never taken a gas or electric cart there but have pushed my trolley (and carried before then) and it requires a decent amount of physical fitness.

Hope very much I'm wrong.

But then do caddies make all that much of a difference?  If it is a tough walk then is it that much worse to have a bag on your back or a pull cart? 
My home club has a number of steep hills, including up to the 18th green and many of us walk and carry.  Many others use pull carts and electric caddies have become increasingly popular in the last four years.  And about 30-40% of rounds are played in riding carts.

Wayne,


I wish more people had our mindset but I would say that as I approach age 66 I do particularly enjoy rounds with a caddy as it does add to the tired factor when I carry or push a cart.   I've never tried an electric push cart.


That being said, I'll do any of those 7x a week before riding.