The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?

[John Kavanaugh]

It’s not a coincidence that the new American savior investors own the WWE. This is all good for the bottom line.

[Sean_A]

A conversation with some mates suggested that Rory and Luke could have called over Cantley and Zak and quietly pointed out to them in a dignified and gentle manner the importance of integrity, honour, respect, courtesy, decorum etc within the game of golf and suggested that Cantley should pick up Rory’s ball. Bit like Jason Leonard or Ben Crenshaw could have picked up JM Olazabal’s ball in 1999 if Olly and Mark James had called for a wee chat.
Such a diplomatic approach to handling of the incident could even have set a precedent for preventing or at least limiting any iffy and controversial incidents at future Ryder Cups the more so in view of forthcoming host venues and the apparent behavioural reputation of the localities ‘sports fans’.

Atb

On the green I thought the incident was handled fine 🤷.

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

There’s no question the European fan’s behavior was piss [size=78%]poor and that in part led to LaCava’s response.  There’s no question what LaCava did in response was wrong.[/size]



The part I have a major problem with was Rory getting in a shooting match with one of the nicest caddies on tour later that night and someone known to be very easy going.  It is very easy to pick a fight with someone that doesn’t fight back.  I have and will continue to never like bullies or bullying behavior and that’s what this looks like.  And then, he apologizes to said caddie via text!  Classy is a two way street.  Very very disappointed in Rory and it has nothing to do with his actions on the course.


Chris

What do you actually know about the parking lot?  What I've seen, is film of Bones nearer McIlroy's car than laCava.  Looks to me as if Bones has interceded into something being said between McIlroy and laCava, at distance.  It's also clear that McIlroy is pointing at laCava, not Bones.  I think you are seeing something that isn't there.  Rory simply isn't picking a fight with Bones, he's still incensed with laCava and Bones has stepped in between them.  Rory certainly doesn't appear to be "bullying" Bones and to suggest he is takes a very special reading of the video I've seen.

[Sean_A]

There’s no question the European fan’s behavior was piss [size=78%]poor and that in part led to LaCava’s response.  There’s no question what LaCava did in response was wrong.[/size]

The part I have a major problem with was Rory getting in a shooting match with one of the nicest caddies on tour later that night and someone known to be very easy going.  It is very easy to pick a fight with someone that doesn’t fight back.  I have and will continue to never like bullies or bullying behavior and that’s what this looks like.  And then, he apologizes to said caddie via text!  Classy is a two way street.  Very very disappointed in Rory and it has nothing to do with his actions on the course.

Chris

What do you actually know about the parking lot?  What I've seen, is film of Bones nearer McIlroy's car than laCava.  Looks to me as if Bones has interceded into something being said between McIlroy and laCava, at distance.  It's also clear that McIlroy is pointing at laCava, not Bones.  I think you are seeing something that isn't there.  Rory simply isn't picking a fight with Bones, he's still incensed with laCava and Bones has stepped in between them.  Rory certainly doesn't appear to be "bullying" Bones and to suggest he is takes a very special reading of the video I've seen.

It looks like Rory is yelling at LaCava through Bones out of frustration. LaCava may not have been there! Still, its not cool. Just as it wasn't cool for LaCava to get aggressive toward Lowry off the 18th green.

The entire incident is unfortunate. I am surprised Rory hung onto his anger late into the night and into the next day. Its a bit OTT imo...assuming the flames weren't fanned again by LaCava or a third party.

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,


Agreed it's not cool.  And we don't know (and probably never will) if something was said to McIlroy by laCava in the car park.  But you appear to agree that the suggestion that McIlroy is "bullying" Bones is just wrong, on the basis of the video.  Nor is there any support for the idea that McIlroy "picked a fight" with Bones. 


I get that some people don't like McIlroy (though I haven't ever understood why not) but Chris is just making stuff up.


Mark

[Niall C]

A conversation with some mates suggested that Rory and Luke could have called over Cantley and Zak and quietly pointed out to them in a dignified and gentle manner the importance of integrity, honour, respect, courtesy, decorum etc within the game of golf and suggested that Cantley should pick up Rory’s ball. Bit like Jason Leonard or Ben Crenshaw could have picked up JM Olazabal’s ball in 1999 if Olly and Mark James had called for a wee chat.
Such a diplomatic approach to handling of the incident could even have set a precedent for preventing or at least limiting any iffy and controversial incidents at future Ryder Cups the more so in view of forthcoming host venues and the apparent behavioural reputation of the localities ‘sports fans’.

Atb

David


I don't agree. Pointing out the ongoing antics of the caddy to the Team Captain and player should be enough to have them intervene but asking them to give the putt I think is unmerited and would be unfair on Cantlay and Clark although I have to say that Cantlay clearly was aware of what was going on and walked away from it. I don't know about Johnston but I'd be surprised if he didn't have a front row seat on what was going on.


Niall

[Kalen Braley]

This entire 18th green dustup is exactly why match referees in golf need to be pro-active, not just informed hands-off bystanders. He could have stepped in, thrown the flag at Lacava, and awarded the hole to the Euros. That would have settled things the quickest... 

P.S.  Completely agree with Mark's assessment. If anything it looks like Bones stepped in to deescalate, and then Rory said something to Bones like "You better have a chat with your boy and tell him to knock off this bush league nonsense"

[Mike Hendren]

Were punches thrown?  Wives or moms insulted? Profanities laced?  Dogs cussed?  Noses tweaked?  Trousers dropped? Scripture invoked?  Mono-digital expression articulated?


Nope. Just a bunch of wealthy dudes behaving poorly.  In other words not a BFD.

Bye Felicia’s.

[Rob Marshall]

There’s no question the European fan’s behavior was piss [size=78%]poor and that in part led to LaCava’s response.  There’s no question what LaCava did in response was wrong.[/size]



The part I have a major problem with was Rory getting in a shooting match with one of the nicest caddies on tour later that night and someone known to be very easy going.  It is very easy to pick a fight with someone that doesn’t fight back.  I have and will continue to never like bullies or bullying behavior and that’s what this looks like.  And then, he apologizes to said caddie via text!  Classy is a two way street.  Very very disappointed in Rory and it has nothing to do with his actions on the course.


Chris

What do you actually know about the parking lot?  What I've seen, is film of Bones nearer McIlroy's car than laCava.  Looks to me as if Bones has interceded into something being said between McIlroy and laCava, at distance.  It's also clear that McIlroy is pointing at laCava, not Bones.  I think you are seeing something that isn't there.  Rory simply isn't picking a fight with Bones, he's still incensed with laCava and Bones has stepped in between them.  Rory certainly doesn't appear to be "bullying" Bones and to suggest he is takes a very special reading of the video I've seen.

Mark,
LaCava wasn't in the parking lot. Just Bones.

[Peter Sayegh]

LaCava acted like an ass. Does anyone argue that?

Admittedly, I'm a Rory fan.
Maybe he chose Bones to vent his anger towards because he felt him an influential and congenial mediator.

[David Kelly]

Show up, keep up, shut up.

[Mark Pearce]

There’s no question the European fan’s behavior was piss [size=78%]poor and that in part led to LaCava’s response.  There’s no question what LaCava did in response was wrong.[/size]



The part I have a major problem with was Rory getting in a shooting match with one of the nicest caddies on tour later that night and someone known to be very easy going.  It is very easy to pick a fight with someone that doesn’t fight back.  I have and will continue to never like bullies or bullying behavior and that’s what this looks like.  And then, he apologizes to said caddie via text!  Classy is a two way street.  Very very disappointed in Rory and it has nothing to do with his actions on the course.


Chris

What do you actually know about the parking lot?  What I've seen, is film of Bones nearer McIlroy's car than laCava.  Looks to me as if Bones has interceded into something being said between McIlroy and laCava, at distance.  It's also clear that McIlroy is pointing at laCava, not Bones.  I think you are seeing something that isn't there.  Rory simply isn't picking a fight with Bones, he's still incensed with laCava and Bones has stepped in between them.  Rory certainly doesn't appear to be "bullying" Bones and to suggest he is takes a very special reading of the video I've seen.

Mark,
LaCava wasn't in the parking lot. Just Bones.

Are you sure?  He wasn't on camera but whoever Rory was venting at wasn't either.  He certainly wasn't pointing and shouting at Bones.

[David Cronan]

Show up, keep up, shut up.

I don't understand why a caddie feels entitled to get involved with the match the way LaCava did. My understanding is that his gripe was with the fans, who had the audacity to take off their hats when Cantlay was in the vicinity.


Does anybody remember this display from Keegan Bradley's caddie at the 2012 Ryder Cup at Medinah? If you watch, keep in mind that the match wasn't over after Bradley's putt. For that matter, the Europeans hadn't had their birdie attempt yet to halve the hole.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PMj34FugBU

[Rob Marshall]

There’s no question the European fan’s behavior was piss [size=78%]poor and that in part led to LaCava’s response.  There’s no question what LaCava did in response was wrong.[/size]



The part I have a major problem with was Rory getting in a shooting match with one of the nicest caddies on tour later that night and someone known to be very easy going.  It is very easy to pick a fight with someone that doesn’t fight back.  I have and will continue to never like bullies or bullying behavior and that’s what this looks like.  And then, he apologizes to said caddie via text!  Classy is a two way street.  Very very disappointed in Rory and it has nothing to do with his actions on the course.


Chris

What do you actually know about the parking lot?  What I've seen, is film of Bones nearer McIlroy's car than laCava.  Looks to me as if Bones has interceded into something being said between McIlroy and laCava, at distance.  It's also clear that McIlroy is pointing at laCava, not Bones.  I think you are seeing something that isn't there.  Rory simply isn't picking a fight with Bones, he's still incensed with laCava and Bones has stepped in between them.  Rory certainly doesn't appear to be "bullying" Bones and to suggest he is takes a very special reading of the video I've seen.

Mark,
LaCava wasn't in the parking lot. Just Bones.

Are you sure?  He wasn't on camera but whoever Rory was venting at wasn't either.  He certainly wasn't pointing and shouting at Bones.

Yes, they asked Rory and he said he was yelling at Bones because he was the first American he saw. He confirmed that LaCava was not in the parking lot.

[John Kavanaugh]

Show up, keep up, shut up.

If you can get your children to embrace those words they most likely won’t move back in with you.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Geezo, 24 years on, and nothing changes when it comes to Team USA's behaviour 

The Euros (and their fans) are hardly the saints they're made out to be by… themselves and their media, either.

[Chris_Blakely]

Sean,


Agreed it's not cool.  And we don't know (and probably never will) if something was said to McIlroy by laCava in the car park.  But you appear to agree that the suggestion that McIlroy is "bullying" Bones is just wrong, on the basis of the video.  Nor is there any support for the idea that McIlroy "picked a fight" with Bones. 


I get that some people don't like McIlroy (though I haven't ever understood why not) but Chris is just making stuff up.


Mark

Mark


If I made something up then why did Rory feel the need to text an apology to bones ??


Thanks
Chris

[Mark Pearce]

Geezo, 24 years on, and nothing changes when it comes to Team USA's behaviour 

The Euros (and their fans) are hardly the saints they're made out to be by… themselves and their media, either.

No-one makes the European fans out to be saints.  No-one has in this thread.  No-one has anywhere else. 

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,


Agreed it's not cool.  And we don't know (and probably never will) if something was said to McIlroy by laCava in the car park.  But you appear to agree that the suggestion that McIlroy is "bullying" Bones is just wrong, on the basis of the video.  Nor is there any support for the idea that McIlroy "picked a fight" with Bones. 


I get that some people don't like McIlroy (though I haven't ever understood why not) but Chris is just making stuff up.


Mark

Mark


If I made something up then why did Rory feel the need to text an apology to bones ??


Thanks
Chris

Because he's a decent bloke and felt sorry that Bones got caught up in the dispute with laCava?  That's very different from "bullying" Bones.  And whether laCava was there or not (Rob says he wasn't), whoever McIlroy was speaking at in the car park, it wasn't Bones until Bones (as Lowry also did) interceded.

[Rob Marshall]

Sean,


Agreed it's not cool.  And we don't know (and probably never will) if something was said to McIlroy by laCava in the car park.  But you appear to agree that the suggestion that McIlroy is "bullying" Bones is just wrong, on the basis of the video.  Nor is there any support for the idea that McIlroy "picked a fight" with Bones. 


I get that some people don't like McIlroy (though I haven't ever understood why not) but Chris is just making stuff up.


Mark

Mark


If I made something up then why did Rory feel the need to text an apology to bones ??


Thanks
Chris

Because he's a decent bloke and felt sorry that Bones got caught up in the dispute with laCava?  That's very different from "bullying" Bones.  And whether laCava was there or not (Rob says he wasn't), whoever McIlroy was speaking at in the car park, it wasn't Bones until Bones (as Lowry also did) interceded.

Mark, I didn't say it, Rory did. Watch his freaking interview after the matches. LaCava was not there. He also said he WAS speaking to directly to Bones, no one else. This is from Rory's mouth not mine.


Watch the first minute and a half.........


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqn8DUi9SP0

[Kalen Braley]

Rob,

Thanks for posting that, clears it up pretty well. 

Rory apologized the next day, did Joe ever do same?

P.S.  I think that's a good nick name for Rory "Car-park scrapper"...I like it! 

[Mark Pearce]

Thanks, Rob.  Odd, because in the video Rory clearly seems to be having a go at someone behind Bones.  I note that he was open in this, and acknowledged his fault.  Also that he unilaterally contacted Bones to apologise.  Any insight into whether laCava has done the same, or whether anyone else in the American team has done?

[John Kavanaugh]

I know I’ve offended people here in the past. Sorry. All good now?

[Cliff Hamm]

The 1999 Ryder Cup at Brookline certainly did not have the most well behaved, courteous crowd. They were all over Montgomery. He was playing with Payne Stewart.. on about the 7th tee Payne scolded the crowd to cut it out and be respectful…. Would that ever happen today? Unfortunately, golf is no longer the gentleman’s game it once was.

[Pat Burke]

Players responsibility to reign the caddy back in, but the situation post making that putt can wrangle your thinking in the moment, but still should have been handled by the player




I read a quote that Rory getting in to it with Bones was
“He was the first American I saw”. If….IF
That is accurate then we have a whole second incident






Rory quote
“ “I was actually about to drop my bag and go into the American locker room because I was so angry but Shane kind of held me back from doing that. The first American I saw was Bones Mackay and I know he is close to Joe so I let him have a mouthful.”