[mark chalfant]

I am visiting St. Andrews for the first time soon!


Of the four courses located nearest to TOC which are most fun to play. Which golf course features the most distinctive (worthy of study) holes?


Thank you!!




Is TOC always closed on Sunday?

[Sean_A]

The New Course

Yes, unless a tournament is on.

Ciao

[Marty Bonnar]

Mark,
Check your PMs.
Cheers,
M.

[Jason Thurman]

Good thread. This question was harder to answer than I expected for my own visit.


Then, it turned out a tournament kept the New, Jubilee, and Eden fully booked up while I was in town.


For what it's worth, my own conclusion was to prioritize New, Eden, Jubilee in that order. New seems to have the best reputation overall. Jubilee vs Eden sounds more like a question of preference, where Jubilee is a sterner test and Eden is fairly gentle on one's scorecard.

[Matt Schoolfield]

The New Course (Old Tom) is the best round of golf I’ve ever had in my life. I liked it better than TOC. The one thing I would note. If my memory serves me, there is a good jump in time from the New Course to the Eden course (Colt).

[Niall C]

Matt


Back in the day Tom MacWood would have had you believe that it was actually Hall Blyth who designed the New but whatever the truth of that (my money would be on Old Tom) the course has had some significant alterations along the way. If memory serves me correctly, the most significant changes were by Colt but Adam might be able to confirm.


Niall

[Mark Pearce]

The best holes are on the Eden.  The worst are on the Eden.  On balance, New is better.  But the best of Eden is very good.

[Adam Lawrence]

Matt

Back in the day Tom MacWood would have had you believe that it was actually Hall Blyth who designed the New but whatever the truth of that (my money would be on Old Tom) the course has had some significant alterations along the way. If memory serves me correctly, the most significant changes were by Colt but Adam might be able to confirm.

Niall

Yes, Colt almost entirely rebuilt the New course in 1919/20. The golf correspondent of the St Andrews Citizen said "The New Course is being entirely revolutionised in character, and local golfers will scarcely recognise some of the holes when the work is completed.... the hand of Mr H. S. Colt is everywhere in evidence."


The course should be listed as a Morris/Hall Blyth/Colt design.

[Ben Stephens]

Matt

Back in the day Tom MacWood would have had you believe that it was actually Hall Blyth who designed the New but whatever the truth of that (my money would be on Old Tom) the course has had some significant alterations along the way. If memory serves me correctly, the most significant changes were by Colt but Adam might be able to confirm.

Niall

Yes, Colt almost entirely rebuilt the New course in 1919/20. The golf correspondent of the St Andrews Citizen said "The New Course is being entirely revolutionised in character, and local golfers will scarcely recognise some of the holes when the work is completed.... the hand of Mr H. S. Colt is everywhere in evidence."

The course should be listed as a Morris/Hall Blyth/Colt design.

Adam - I would say it is more a Colt course as a lot of the Blyth (first time I have heard this) and Morris course were gone - based on a newspaper article that MM has provided to me a long while ago detailing all the changes made to the course with a few diagrams.

[Niall C]

Matt

Back in the day Tom MacWood would have had you believe that it was actually Hall Blyth who designed the New but whatever the truth of that (my money would be on Old Tom) the course has had some significant alterations along the way. If memory serves me correctly, the most significant changes were by Colt but Adam might be able to confirm.

Niall

Yes, Colt almost entirely rebuilt the New course in 1919/20. The golf correspondent of the St Andrews Citizen said "The New Course is being entirely revolutionised in character, and local golfers will scarcely recognise some of the holes when the work is completed.... the hand of Mr H. S. Colt is everywhere in evidence."

The course should be listed as a Morris/Hall Blyth/Colt design.

Adam - I would say it is more a Colt course as a lot of the Blyth (first time I have heard this) and Morris course were gone - based on a newspaper article that MM has provided to me a long while ago detailing all the changes made to the course with a few diagrams.

The Hall Blyth case revolves round him having produced a plan of the course but he also did that for various iterations of the Gullane courses, North Berwick, Luffness New, Kilspindie, Muirfield etc without having designed the layouts. He was however on the Committee that oversaw and eventually tweaked the 1895 changes to NB so I suppose you could give him some slight credit there.
 
Niall   

[Niall C]

The best holes are on the Eden.  The worst are on the Eden.  On balance, New is better.  But the best of Eden is very good.

Design attributions aside, this sums it up fairly succinctly.


Niall

[Ben Stephens]

The best holes are on the Eden.  The worst are on the Eden.  On balance, New is better.  But the best of Eden is very good.

Design attributions aside, this sums it up fairly succinctly.


Niall

Agree - I have played the Eden the most - it has great holes the crossover par 3s - 5 and 8 its a pity that it has been chopped and changed there is still an opportunity to make it better as today there are better course builders than in the 1990s when they did the new holes which felt out of synch with the rest of the course

[mike_beene]

Did they change it when the practice area was built? Jubilee was fun the one time I played it but can’t remember much. I think the New would be better thought of if it were not next to the Old.

[mike_beene]

And please spend time around town and the ruins. Breathtaking!!!

[Doug Bolls]

And a pint or two at the Dunvegan!

[Sean_A]

The best holes are on the Eden.  The worst are on the Eden.  On balance, New is better.  But the best of Eden is very good.

Eden doesn't have any better holes than 9 New. I would also say 3&5 are among the best holes of the two courses.

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

The best holes are on the Eden.  The worst are on the Eden.  On balance, New is better.  But the best of Eden is very good.

Eden doesn't have any better holes than 9 New. I would also say 3&5 are among the best holes of the two courses.

Ciao

It has holes as good (5, 8 are every bit as good).  I didn't mean that New doesn't have some excellent golf (it does0 but that the best of Eden is better but the worst far, far worse.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Head on down to Crail, easy to get too and a great course.

[Mark Pearce]

Head on down to Crail, easy to get too and a great course.

I think both Eden and New are better courses and I'm biased in favour of Crail.

[Brian Walshe]

As difficult as I find this to say, I agree with Mark.  New is better than Eden because as good as most of the greens complexes on the front 9 on Eden are the back 9 has a couple of crimes against golf. I'd play New or the front nine on Eden twice before I'd play Crail.  And just to mix things up, I'd play Elie before any of them.

[Mark Pearce]

As difficult as I find this to say, I agree with Mark.  New is better than Eden because as good as most of the greens complexes on the front 9 on Eden are the back 9 has a couple of crimes against golf. I'd play New or the front nine on Eden twice before I'd play Crail.  And just to mix things up, I'd play Elie before any of them.

It's as hard for me to say this but I have to fully agree with Brian.  Of the four courses mentioned in his post, Elie is the clear winner.  But then I'm even more biased regarding Elie than I am Crail.

[Ira Fishman]

I am not biased.


I have not played New, but among the other three, Elie is the choice if you have to pick one. We have played it twice and thoroughly enjoyed it both times even with several holes both times in some challenging weather.


From an architecture standpoint, Eden is stronger than Crail Balcomie because of the green complexes, but the setting at Crail would make it my second choice. And there are some really good holes too, particularly the stretch from 2 through 8.

[Sean_A]

Mark asked about the four courses closest to TOC 🤷. I assume he has his reasons. 😎

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

Mark asked about the four courses closest to TOC 🤷. I assume he has his reasons. 😎

Ciao

And I think we have answered.  I played at Elie last year with a guest who got the bus from St Andrews, so if travel is the issue, Elie's very doable without a car.  Crail far less so, because the club's a good couple of miles out of town.

[Ed Brzezowski]

The New by a landslide. Worth it just to play number nine.

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