WAD_Scorecard by
Garland Bayley, on Flickr
From the present scorecard, we can see that the back tees for the 8th hole, Devil's Elbow, measures 554 yards and the common tees measure 515 yards.
No. 5 is a belter of a Par 5. Very strategic, very dramatic, very quirky and potentially very controversial. This is the tee shot from back pegs. Forward tees will be located on the plateau in the mid foreground. Your tee shot needs to be well placed and possibly not with a driver to ensure you are in good position to take advantage of the strategic choices offered by the second. Somewhere in view close to the dune that ends the left portion of the fairway is good.
Dai provided me with a photo from the tees that we played at Buda, which most definitely were not the back tees.
WAD#8_FromTee by
Garland Bayley, on Flickr
I don't see how the views differ. They look like they were taken from the same location. For that matter, the Google Earth image of the hole from May this year doesn't show the back tees at 554 yards unless the back tees of 17 are doing double duty as the back tees of 8. Of course Ally could have built a new back tee since May that would not show up on the Google Earth image. One additional caveat is that the scorecard yardages don't match up very well with the Google Earth measurements throughout the course. I am wondering if the measurements on the scorecard were done with a wheel rolling on the ground that would add yardage due to the undulations in the ground. Whereas, the Oregon Golf Association measured the course at my club using lasers to poles they set up for measurement purposes which makes the measurements on Google Earth match the scorecard. All other courses I have compared scorecards to Google Earth measurements have lined up to be very accurate!
From
From the preferred position you have the choice of laying up to the left, where Ally and Jack are stood, clipping it over the top of the conical dune, or smashing it over the saddle to the right, ideally aimed at the toe of the dune. The hole bends at about 70 degrees to the right and continues to a large green tucked behind another dune. Split fairways are tough to get right.
Kevin Markham recently produced a YouTube video about Carne including the Wild Atlantic Dunes layout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hXgYkcM7xg He clarifies the choices that Robin is referring to.
Laying up left would be as shown.
WAD#8_ThroughDevilsElbow by
Garland Bayley, on Flickr
Smashing it over the saddle to the right as seen here.
WAD#8_Shortcut by
Garland Bayley, on Flickr
He diagrams the options labeling laying up as 2, and over the saddle as 1.
WAD#8_Diagram by
Garland Bayley, on Flickr
The far side of the saddle will be fairway and for my money this side of the saddle should be cut down too. There is nothing to be gained by laying up on the hill or just sclaffing it to the top, as the angle into the green is horrible from there. You have to clear the saddle by a distance to gain much of a benefit, so there is little danger of the left fairway being rendered obsolete. The weaker golfer will generally favour that route for the better visibility it offers.
It seems Robin's money is with the 2010 version of the hole seen in Google Earth.
DevilsElbowCarne2010 by
Garland Bayley, on Flickr
Where we see the near side of the saddle has been cut down too.
Kevin Markham shows the view from “sclaffing” it to the top.
WAD#8_RidgeApproach by
Garland Bayley, on Flickr
Dai has provided a picture from the green looking back from the green. The photo shows that significant elevation must be gained to come over the saddle. Without the necessity of needing to hit the ball high, the weaker golfer can favor the long way round. Should a hole be measured by the weak golfer's route? I don't think I have ever seen a hole before that has been measured by the weak golfer's route!
WAD#8_BehindGreen by
Garland Bayley, on Flickr
Of course the land coming down from the saddle will promote further roll out for the ball. Kevin Markham shows the view from the saddle towards the green.
WAD#8_RidgeApproach by
Garland Bayley, on Flickr
Robin calls the hole “very strategic.”
The strategy of going through Devil's Elbow is diagrammed below.
WAD#8_Option2 by
Garland Bayley, on Flickr
Notice that it is diagrammed from the back tee for 17 as the yardages shown on the shots add up to the 554 yards that the scorecard shows for the hole. Also, notice that the route hugs the edge of the fairway, whereas typically a hole would be measured along the center of the fairway. But, as noted above the yardages measured on Google Earth did not align with the scorecard values, and the exact location of the tee is in question.
The strategy of going over the saddle is diagrammed below.
WAD#8_Option1 by
Garland Bayley, on Flickr
Notice that the path again hugs the edge of the fairway so as to be analogous the the path given in the previous diagram. Also notice that the length is now 530 yards.
Looking at Dai's photograph with a more close up view of the two paths approaching the green
it is clear that going over the saddle gives a far more forgiving landing area for the second shot. And, the down slope will extend the length of the shot. Combining that with the necessity of needing to stop a ball from running through the fairway on the Devil's Elbow which further limits the low ball hitters by forcing them to detour on a wide path around the elbow to get through it as they cannot loft a ball into the narrow path that would be running at a 70 degree angle from their current fairway and have it stop before running through the fairway.
WAD#8_DevilsElbow by
Garland Bayley, on Flickr
My personal experience was that after a good drive from tees well forward of the back tees I could see a tight area to land my second shot in. My estimate of hitting 7 iron sent the ball through the elbow and lost. Second time around after a similar drive choosing 9 iron I the ball pulled into the rough on the right and ended up with another lost ball. I didn't know about playing over the saddle as my drive was beyond an area where that would be an option had I even known that such an option existed.
So there are several questions and possible topic for discussion brought up by this narrative.
Where exactly is the tee for the 554 yard length? Was a 554 yard version of the hole pictured in Robin's original photograph?
If the grass were mowed out in the near side of the saddle as seen in the 2010 version, would anyone actually choose to play through the elbow? Even without it mowed out, how many experienced players of the hole actually play around the elbow? Should not the scorecard label the hole as 530 yards, and leave the weaker players to play the 554 yard version?
Has the elbow been widened or softened in any way since Buda was there in 2016? Has the club experimented with mowing out the near side of the saddle since Ally began his work there in 2012?
From the forward tees should a player lay back to gain the best angle over the saddle? Should a pole or poles be erected to give a proper line over the saddle?
How were hole lengths measured at Carne? I notice that our scorecards from 2016 were in metres, but the Carne website now shows the card shown above measured in yards. Perhaps Ally just counted his steps as he played his ball around the links.
Don't you have to make a decision on the club you choose on the tee based on what strategy you are choosing on the tee. If you consistently hit your shots, wouldn't you want to play a shorter club off the tee to give you a good angle over the saddle, and play a longer club off the tee to give you a more lofted shot into the elbow? Therefore, the strategic options are not offered by the second shot.
Was the split fairway here gotten right?