TPC at River Highlands Obsolete for Pros?

[Tim Martin]

https://www.courant.com/2023/06/28/travelers-says-changes-are-coming-to-tpc-river-highlands-after-complaints-over-low-scores/

For those that have played the golf course or walked the holes as a spectator what’s the remedy to the low scoring absent increased length? The powers that be were quick to react to Rory’s comments.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Viewed from my TV screen, it looked like a pretty dull and unmemorable course.


Even the drivable par four 16th - which should provide some excitement and thrills - is too predictable. What is the risk with that hole, except for some water to the left, which shouldn't really influence your decision on whether to try to reach the green or not?


It was very boring to watch; a total contrast to the previous weekend.

[John Blain]

https://www.courant.com/2023/06/28/travelers-says-changes-are-coming-to-tpc-river-highlands-after-complaints-over-low-scores/

For those that have played the golf course or walked the holes as a spectator what’s the remedy to the low scoring absent increased length? The powers that be were quick to react to Rory’s comments.

Tim-
I've neither played nor walked the course but it seems like many of the players really like the course and every year they rave about the event. The tournament has had some incredibly exciting moments over the years including Jordan's hole out bunker shot, the playoff with Kramer Hickok and Harris English, etc. I see nothing wrong with the occasional birdie-fest especially the week after the US Open. I know I am going to get crucified by the purists, but I actually find it entertaining.
By the way, Berkshire Hills hosted a US AM qualifier yesterday. 84 for 2. TEN UNDER was medalist and 9 UNDER played off 3 for 1.
The guy who ended up first alternate shoe 64-71 and made only one bogey in 36 holes. Low scoring is everywhere.

[Matthew Rose]

At 6,850 yards it is probably far too short to hold a tour event nowadays. Looking at an aerial I'm not sure there's a lot of places you could add length, either.

Does anyone even remember much of the original course when it was Edgewood?

[Tim Martin]

https://www.courant.com/2023/06/28/travelers-says-changes-are-coming-to-tpc-river-highlands-after-complaints-over-low-scores/

For those that have played the golf course or walked the holes as a spectator what’s the remedy to the low scoring absent increased length? The powers that be were quick to react to Rory’s comments.

Tim-
I've neither played nor walked the course but it seems like many of the players really like the course and every year they rave about the event. The tournament has had some incredibly exciting moments over the years including Jordan's hole out bunker shot, the playoff with Kramer Hickok and Harris English, etc. I see nothing wrong with the occasional birdie-fest especially the week after the US Open. I know I am going to get crucified by the purists, but I actually find it entertaining.
By the way, Berkshire Hills hosted a US AM qualifier yesterday. 84 for 2. TEN UNDER was medalist and 9 UNDER played off 3 for 1.
The guy who ended up first alternate shoe 64-71 and made only one bogey in 36 holes. Low scoring is everywhere.

John- As you mentioned it’s wildly popular with both the players and fans. McIlroy’s comments shouldn’t come as a revelation as at 6850 yards there isn’t any question using the current setup that they are going to go low. I’ve accepted the scoring and marvel at how good they are on a course that most club players find pretty difficult.

[Tim Martin]

At 6,850 yards it is probably far too short to hold a tour event nowadays. Looking at an aerial I'm not sure there's a lot of places you could add length, either.

Does anyone even remember much of the original course when it was Edgewood?

Matthew-There isn’t much room to lengthen it.

[Sam Morrow]

On TV it's one of my favorite events to watch, they are all playing the same course and it looks like a fun course.

[Mark Kiely]

On TV it's one of my favorite events to watch, they are all playing the same course and it looks like a fun course.

Ditto.

[V. Kmetz]

I may understand but cannot decide if Rory's comments are frustration or a veiled call to rollback; he played a lot of good golf the last two weeks with nothing but his agent and retinue's financial bliss to show for it.  I can discount any one or small group of Tour players against the diverse majority who like it and the TV watchers, like me, who think it produces a fun tournament watch from Thursday to Sunday...  you get runs at breaking 60, an opportunity for steep comebacks, pressure to score, a usually consequential 18th, and the last six holes are a rollercoaster of scoring turns and penalty dips.


Architecturally, it might be a little too much for the common player (certainly the unpracticed one like me now) but it sure is entertaining to watch...But to Tour obsolescence?  What isn't? C'mon there were two record breaking 62s on a USGA course, after a pitch and putt Open Championship last year... Rory shot 258 and 261 to win the Canadian Open in 2019 & 2022...and five years ago, I saw Tommy Fleetwood shoot a Sunday 63 on a course that Thursday produced the highest average scoring in this century... 76.47.

[Rob Marshall]

Every round there is seemingly a 59 watch. It's a go low or go home course for sure.

[jeffwarne]

Why can't an event be different?


There used to be short courses, long courses, slow greens, fast greens, courses with deep rough, courses without rough, wide courses, narrow courses.
More homogonization(longer-fast greens, fake chipping areas, width for width's sake etc. everywhere)isn't always the answer.


BTW, by the finish, in the Top 5 and ties, you had 3 bomberish players, (one who was ranked #1 in the world,one who is ranked 4th) and three shortish(by Tour standards) hitters.


Seems all were tested.


The PGA Tour is entertainment.
Many were entertained.


The course wouldn't be my first choice, but...

[Jay Mickle]

Th golf community seems to need to relate to tour pro scoring vs the same par that they play to. Fact is that these players are in a whole other class. As a track and field aficionado I look at world records of 8+ feet in the high jump, approx 2 hours for a 26.2 mile marathon, 29+ feet for the long jump and am awed by the performances. I have no problem seeing which golfers hold up as they try to shoot in the mid/low 50s. It is still a sport where low score wins.

[Tom_Doak]

Rory is one of the few players who thinks the ball should be rolled back, even more than proposed; I don't think that his opinion on it is for his own self-interest, but he understands that would benefit him more than most players.  [Tiger is another.  Did he ever play at Hartford?]


By the same token, for a guy on the Tour policy board who is supposed to have the pulse of the players, it's a very obtuse comment about a course most players profess to like -- and to REALLY enjoy on the heels of U.S. Open week.



Obsolete is a strong word.  To me, an obsolete course would be one that's broken, so that the longest hitters can just drive a lot of greens and go very low, and there is nothing to stop them.  That doesn't seem to be the case for the TPC in Hartford.  Sure, it yields low scoring, but offers it to a diverse group of players.  As Jeff Warne says, not every week should serve up the same sort of event with the same sort of winner.

[Sean_A]

Honestly, for these guys, is there any difference between 6850 and 7250? Maaaaybe one shot over the four rounds? There is far too much focus on length.

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

Honestly, for these guys, is there any difference between 6850 and 7250? Maaaaybe one shot over the four rounds? There is far too much focus on length.

Sean:


The difference is that a long hitter like Rory might not be able to use his length to his advantage, if the areas 300-350 yards from the tee are full of trouble, and he has to lay back a lot, giving the shorter hitters a chance.


I would be curious how often he hit driver there, and if that's really what he's complaining about.

[Tim Martin]

Honestly, for these guys, is there any difference between 6850 and 7250? Maaaaybe one shot over the four rounds? There is far too much focus on length.

Sean:


The difference is that a long hitter like Rory might not be able to use his length to his advantage, if the areas 300-350 yards from the tee are full of trouble, and he has to lay back a lot, giving the shorter hitters a chance.


I would be curious how often he hit driver there, and if that's really what he's complaining about.

Rory was paired with Rahm and Finau on Thursday and Friday. On Friday at 18 his drive was by both of them by at least thirty yards in an area down the left side I haven’t seen reached before. I agree that he can get into trouble even north of 350 depending on the hole.

[Tim Gavrich]

Last weekend's winning score at TPC River Highlands was -23. Official yardage: 6,852


Yesterday's playoff score at Detroit Golf Club was -24. Official yardage: 7,370


I know DGC is par 72 while TPC RH is par 70, but in receptive, low-/no-wind situations, effectively all golf courses are "obsolete" for professional golfers the way the equipment is currently (non-)regulated.


Speaking specifically of TPC River Highlands, it has always been an excellent golf course for the pros in large part because of what Tom Doak alludes to above: it does not favor one style of player over another. Case in point: in 2010, Bubba Watson beat Corey Pavin and Scott Verplank in a playoff.


The 15th hole is one the greatest short par 4s I've ever seen because the trouble around the green is varied and sits at an absolutely perfect remove, causing players who want to go for it to make loose enough swings to get themselves into real trouble.


Finally, let's not overreact about the winning score. Golf isn't that much more of a disproportionate power game now than it was in 2017, when Jordan Spieth and Daniel Berger played off at -12.


I also think that River Highlands is much more enjoyable for non-pros than most PGA Tour courses. Its modest length helps handicap golfers a lot and he majority of greens are open in front. My main issue with the course now is that the bunker renovation that was done before the 2016 tournament was a bit of a misfire.


While I understand the impulse to remove a bunch of the previous bunkers (I think there were more than 100 originally), the newer flat-bottomed, steep-faced bunkers have never looked right. But more importantly they are actually easier for pros to escape and harder for everyday golfers to deal with. The steep faces frustrate less accomplished players while the best golfers get a flat lie every time, which is easy and predictable. The old bunkers were flashed-faced and the steep sand faces could turn them into actual hazards when players either plugged a ball into them or found themselves in a downhill lie.


The course is not the problem, though - the equipment is. 2026 can't come soon enough.