OT non refundable deposit on club waiting list.

[Rob Marshall]

So I’m on a waiting list for a private club in Naples Florida. Took my name off another waiting list that wanted a $10,000 non refundable deposit that was really a resort course. Instead I put down a $6500 non refundable deposit on a club that was truly private. I have not received my letter yet but a friend also on the list received a letter today from the club stating that since golf was booming and no one was quitting they are sending our $6500 back and eliminating the waitlist. I was on the list for a nonresident membership. Nonresident, as I don’t live in the community. I was grandfathered in at $65k. The current initiation is now $85,000.


If I had been on both lists, got in the other club, and asked for my $6500 back they obviously would say no. Apparently this was a one way non refundable waiting list. I would appreciate any thoughts. Im mind boggled by this.

[archie_struthers]

 


It's a tough market out there. Privates are in a position of strength that is beyond what we could have imagined just 10 years ago. I still have trouble getting my arms around a deposit that is non-refundable if you never get in the club, just crazy to me.

[David_Tepper]

Rob -

Please clarify your situation. Do you expect to get the same letter as your friend and get your $6,500 back or do you think there will be a problem?

DT

[Rob Marshall]

David,
I expect to get the same letter. I took myself off the waitlist of another club. This club was a better fit for me. I gave them a non refundable deposit. Now 9 months later they are sending me my money back and I have no where to go. There are only 30 nonresident memberships. What I think is happening is more home owners want to join the club. As non resident members leave they are going to replace them with residents at $85K+ when I was guaranteed an initiation fee of $65K. I’m still working but getting closer to retirement so waiting a few years wasn’t an issue. BTW the other clubs waiting list is full so I can’t even go to the end of the line there.


They F’d me. Probably with no recourse. I’m going to call the membership woman on Monday. I think it was Jeff Warne that said…”Covid has been great for golf,lousy for golfers.”

[Rick Sides]

Sorry to hear this happening guys . It’s funny they are asking thousands of dollars down before you even join! They are taking that money and banking interest as you are in a state of limbo . As someone said the private clubs are in a powerful spot now and since Covid golf clubs that use to waive all initiation fees are now so popular fees are back and there are waits . I will tell you the current golf market is not sustainable over the next 10 years . With the prices of small items skyrocketing people will eventually have to give up something . Considering these clubs using your money as you wait is it really a club you want to be part of anyway ? That’s shady business practice .

[Rob Marshall]

Sorry to hear this happening guys . It’s funny they are asking thousands of dollars down before you even join! They are taking that money and banking interest as you are in a state of limbo . As someone said the private clubs are in a powerful spot now and since Covid golf clubs that use to waive all initiation fees are now so popular fees are back and there are waits . I will tell you the current golf market is not sustainable over the next 10 years . With the prices of small items skyrocketing people will eventually have to give up something . Considering these clubs using your money as you wait is it really a club you want to be part of anyway ? That’s shady business practice .

Rick, It's actually become common practice to make sure the people on the waitlist are serious about joining. At least in the Naples area.

[Rick Sides]

That makes some sense Rob. Just feel bad for the people on here that deposited money and it sat in the clubs account only to be told they are now off that wait list. That sounds sketchy

[Rob Marshall]

That makes some sense Rob. Just feel bad for the people on here that deposited money and it sat in the clubs account only to be told they are now off that wait list. That sounds sketchy

Very sketchy

[John Kavanaugh]

The price of all forms of be with people entertainment has gone through the roof. Bite the bullet or stay home and bite your pillow.

[Craig Sweet]

First world problem....

[Rob Marshall]

The price of all forms of be with people entertainment has gone through the roof. Bite the bullet or stay home and bite your pillow.

I was biting a bullet but they swapped if for a pillow.

[John Kavanaugh]

I like to compare my entertainment choices to a trip to Pebble. Even at $5,000 a trip Pebble almost always wins. Join a private club or go to Pebble 10 times a year. Easy peasy. Does Pebble sell embroidered pillows in the pro shop?

[Mike_Young]

Rob,When they tell you no one is quitting as an excuse for eliminating a waitlist, that is BS...people die and they move so there is always a revolving door...some just slower than others...On the bright side they gave you the deposit back now instead of waiting another year or two...oh well...

[Rob Marshall]

Rob,When they tell you no one is quitting as an excuse for eliminating a waitlist, that is BS...people die and they move so there is always a revolving door...some just slower than others...On the bright side they gave you the deposit back now instead of waiting another year or two...oh well...

No doubt about it. They want to eliminate the non resident category so they can charge more money for resident memberships. I was guaranteed 65K and in Sept it was increased to 85K.

[A.G._Crockett]

Rob,


An odd way to do business, to say the least.


Maybe the best way for you to look at this club is that if this is typical of how it’s run you’ll end up better off somewhere else?  That’s all I’ve got.

[Rob Marshall]

Rob,


An odd way to do business, to say the least.


Maybe the best way for you to look at this club is that if this is typical of how it’s run you’ll end up better off somewhere else?  That’s all I’ve got.

I agree, complete lack of integrity.

[Jeff Schley]

Rob,When they tell you no one is quitting as an excuse for eliminating a waitlist, that is BS...people die and they move so there is always a revolving door...some just slower than others...On the bright side they gave you the deposit back now instead of waiting another year or two...oh well...

No doubt about it. They want to eliminate the non resident category so they can charge more money for resident memberships. I was guaranteed 65K and in Sept it was increased to 85K.

I was looking into membership at a nice club and they basically closed all categories other than full. The GM said, "everyone is going through the front door, not the side door." 5-7 year wait list so who knows what will happen in 5 years it could be another 2008 with housing and then private clubs won't have the leverage they are enjoying today.

[Tim Martin]

Rob,When they tell you no one is quitting as an excuse for eliminating a waitlist, that is BS...people die and they move so there is always a revolving door...some just slower than others...On the bright side they gave you the deposit back now instead of waiting another year or two...oh well...

No doubt about it. They want to eliminate the non resident category so they can charge more money for resident memberships. I was guaranteed 65K and in Sept it was increased to 85K.

I was looking into membership at a nice club and they basically closed all categories other than full. The GM said, "everyone is going through the front door, not the side door." 5-7 year wait list so who knows what will happen in 5 years it could be another 2008 with housing and then private clubs won't have the leverage they are enjoying today.

It will be interesting to see how some of the privates that have reinstated and increased initiation fees handle a downturn. The guys that were lucky enough to get in before Covid have to be pinching themselves.

[Ben Sims]

Three months after sending an inquiry to a club of note in BC, I received a response. They wanted a non-refundable $5k for Waitlist C. Not sure what waitlist C meant, but I’m sure it meant I wasn’t on waitlist B or A.


Two clubs of note in Wisconsin and Oregon wanted considerable (well into five figures) for non-resident memberships with very limited playing privileges.



All aspects (pool, gym, tennis, dining) of my local club in Colorado were private except for the golf course. Last year the course went private too and tee times are required for Fri-Sun play.


New destination clubs are meeting membership goals before opening.


Dunbar, Woodhall Spa, Deal, Elie, Kilspindie, St Enodoc, Pulborough, Woking, North Berwick, and dozens upon dozens of clubs in the UK have waiting lists for all membership categories.


All that to say, it’s an extremely difficult market for club membership at the moment. If you dig deep and work really hard, you can find a great fit. I’m chuffed at how it worked out for me. But it’s not as easy as calling up and paying your fee, that’s for sure.

[Marty Bonnar]

Some of the numbers being bandied about here would buy you a 10% stake in GCAScotland Golf Club.
 
F.

[Scott Warren]

First world problem....

On a niche website about golf course architecture? Who’d have ever expected that?!


Rob - that really sucks. Sorry to hear it.

[Tim Martin]

First world problem....

On a niche website about golf course architecture? Who’d have ever expected that?!


Rob - that really sucks. Sorry to hear it.

Scott-What can you report from Australia on the issue? I hope all is well.😊

[Rob Marshall]

First world problem....

On a niche website about golf course architecture? Who’d have ever expected that?!


Rob - that really sucks. Sorry to hear it.

Definitely a first world problem. It's a nice course. Ken Venturi lived on the 16th hole. Certainly isn't great. just happens to sit in an area of Naples where there aren't a lot of options. Eagle Creek  https://www.eaglecreekcc.org/. It's the lack of integrity that bothers me the most.

[Will Spivey]

Rob,


I hate to hear that.


FWIW, last year a friend of mine who serves on the board of a private club in Charlotte, NC called me to discuss this very topic. It appears the "better" clubs in Charlotte are all now asking for "non-refundable" deposits. As I understand it, people are applying at all the clubs in town, then they join whichever lets them in first. The deposit is designed  to prevent that from happening. If the member is not admitted, or if they leave town, their deposit is returned. The only scenarios where the deposit is forfeited are if they are admitted, then don't join, or if they join another club in town and remove themselves. I have no idea how that could be policed.


As everyone else has mentioned, it is a seller's market right now, and this won't last forever.  I'm not saying this is your situation, but when clubs in NC are charging deposits, things are indeed crazy.

[Mark Pearce]

Dunbar, Woodhall Spa, Deal, Elie, Kilspindie, St Enodoc, Pulborough, Woking, North Berwick, and dozens upon dozens of clubs in the UK have waiting lists for all membership categories.

Most of those had waiting lists before Covid.  That said, I'm a member of one of them and your refunded deposit would pay for me to continue to be so for more than 5 years.  The numbers being banded about here are eye-watering.