[Peter Pallotta]

The purpose of her call was to share how captivating and intriguing TOC (not the term she used) was compared to US courses and how exciting she found the Championship. She may not have Jeff Warne’s depth of knowledge, but she clearly gets it.

I think there are more Mrs. Fishmans out there than we realize. They don't use the right 'terms' or have all the approved language and rhetoric -- but they have eyes to see, and the honest simplicity to believe what their eyes tell them, ie how interesting a course TOC is as a tournament host compared to just about everything else

[Craig Sweet]

It was boring....I can find a couple dozen old geezers at my club that could get up and down from where these guys drove the ball.  Nothing special.

[John Kavanaugh]

It was boring....I can find a couple dozen old geezers at my club that could get up and down from where these guys drove the ball.  Nothing special.

I do hit a ton of great putts that don't go in. Occasionally I even two putt every hole. What would be special would be having announcers not tell the world that I choked.

[John Kavanaugh]

One of the most ignorant comments I have ever heard was the announcer comparing Cam's birdie putt on 18 to the putt Doug Sanders missed. Doug missed one big putt. Rory missed 18. 33 putts for the day and Rory is the Champion golfer of the world. 52,000 people on site would have gotten their wish. An entire new generation of Rory babies would have been born. Much happiness spoiled by another dude from down under.


Just like when Arnold had his championship stolen 50 years ago. It has to stop for the good of the game.

[John Kirk]

When I heard that Rory took 36 putts today, my first thought was he didn't have many good looks.  Here are his putting distances according to theopen.com leaderboard:

1 - 20 feet
2 - 29 feet
3 -  5 feet
4 - 31 feet
5 - 17 feet (2 putt for birdie)
6 - 16 feet
7 - 40 feet
8 - 47 feet
9 - 13 feet
10 - 131 feet (2 putts for birdie)
11- 37 feet (made a 5 footer for par)
12- 14 feet
13 - 61 feet
14 - 20 feet
15 - 42 feet
16 - 41 feet
17 - 18 feet
18 - 20 feet

18/18 greens in regulation, one 5-footer he has to have and 7 putts between 13 and 20 feet long.

[Ken Moum]

John, while he could have made a few of those 13+ footers,  it's certainly not guaranteed.


I watched ever minute of it and never once thought Rory wasted a bunch of good opportunities.

[John Kavanaugh]

I played against a guy for thirty years that thought he was a horrible putter. It took me 20 years before I figured out that he was really just a poor wedge player.

[JLahrman]

John, while he could have made a few of those 13+ footers,  it's certainly not guaranteed.

I watched ever minute of it and never once thought Rory wasted a bunch of good opportunities.

On 9, 12, and 14 he needed birdie putts shorter than 13, 14, and 20 feet. That's where the missed opportunities were. Along with missing the 5-footer at 3. If he birdies 2 of those 4 then the situation is completely different coming down the stretch.


But still, if you had told me before the round that McIlroy would card a 70 and that would be better than Hovland, I would have said he would be extremely likely to win.

[John Kavanaugh]

Caddie value is exposed when or if a macro strategic choice results in failure.

[John Kirk]

Hi Joel,


The data on theopen.com scorecard is misleading.  It says he hit his second shot from 74 yards to 2 yards.  But then it says his 3rd shot was from 41 feet.  Maybe they screwed up.  He missed a 5 footer on #3?  I'll change the list.

[John Kavanaugh]

What is it about pressure that tricks your mind into believing that great putts aren’t going in because it’s not your day?


My point in responding to this thread is not to say Rory choked. I’m simply setting up a scenario where there is no choice but to arrive at the conclusion that TOC is a compelling championship venue beyond reproach. Any other outcome is an Edgelord’s dream.

[Carl Rogers]

If you card a 64, you went out and won it.  Others did not lose it.

[John Kavanaugh]

If you card a 64, you went out and won it.  Others did not lose it.

It’s a myth that one can lose without fault.

[Sean_A]

John, while he could have made a few of those 13+ footers,  it's certainly not guaranteed.

I watched ever minute of it and never once thought Rory wasted a bunch of good opportunities.

I did. His play on 9 was indifferent when he needed to birdie. His play on 14, to come up short was also indifferent. Missing a five footer on 3 was poor.

I had the goal of -3 for Rory after 12 then take a view. I thought -20 would likely win and -21 would nail it down. But a 67 on Sunday is a tough ask.

Ciao

[Peter Pallotta]

I wish Lee Trevino was here to tell us what he saw. Yes, I think Rory's basic game plan was a conservative one, and within that there were 2 or 3 missed opportunities. But while he played solid golf he was not getting his approach shots close enough, often enough. Why? What would Lee say? Is it simply that Sandbelt Cam is the better ball striker on such firm, dry turf?

[Tim Leahy]

Rory shot 2 under, Hovland shot 2 over and the US Open champ shot even par. How easy is this course?  I watched every day and not once did I think about the low scores were or how this course should be replaced with a tougher one. Save the really tough challenge for the US Open. I prefer a little variety in my majors.

[Kevin Pallier]

When I heard that Rory took 36 putts today, my first thought was he didn't have many good looks.  Here are his putting distances according to theopen.com leaderboard:

1 - 20 feet
2 - 29 feet
3 -  5 feet
4 - 31 feet
5 - 17 feet (2 putt for birdie)
6 - 16 feet
7 - 40 feet
8 - 47 feet
9 - 13 feet
10 - 131 feet (2 putts for birdie)
11- 37 feet (made a 5 footer for par)
12- 14 feet
13 - 61 feet
14 - 20 feet
15 - 42 feet
16 - 41 feet
17 - 18 feet
18 - 20 feet

18/18 greens in regulation, one 5-footer he has to have and 7 putts between 13 and 20 feet long.

John


Do you have Cam Smith's distances by comparison?


I liked this stat
C Smith = 27 putts
Rory = 36 putts


Since statistics were first officially tracked at the Majors, McIlroy is the only player to hold the 54-hole lead or co-lead, hit every green in the final round, and not win the tournament.

[Jeff Schley]

I wish Lee Trevino was here to tell us what he saw. Yes, I think Rory's basic game plan was a conservative one, and within that there were 2 or 3 missed opportunities. But while he played solid golf he was not getting his approach shots close enough, often enough. Why? What would Lee say? Is it simply that Sandbelt Cam is the better ball striker on such firm, dry turf?

Peter,
Do you really think Rory was playing conservative?  He took driver at almost all the par 4's and drove several. Also avoided bunkers he could have landed in squirted in the process. I think he was very aggressive off the tee. He wasn't as sharp with his approaches as needed. Certainly it was the putter that was the difference.
Cam hit 2 great drives on 17/18 with 2 great putts. The entire day about the only shot I recall Smith not executing well was his approach on 17, but he did a splendid up and down.
Rory played very well tee to green, he just didn't putt well enough.

[John Kirk]

When I heard that Rory took 36 putts today, my first thought was he didn't have many good looks.  Here are his putting distances according to theopen.com leaderboard:

1 - 20 feet
2 - 29 feet
3 -  5 feet
4 - 31 feet
5 - 17 feet (2 putt for birdie)
6 - 16 feet
7 - 40 feet
8 - 47 feet
9 - 13 feet
10 - 131 feet (2 putts for birdie)
11- 37 feet (made a 5 footer for par)
12- 14 feet
13 - 61 feet
14 - 20 feet
15 - 42 feet
16 - 41 feet
17 - 18 feet
18 - 20 feet

18/18 greens in regulation, one 5-footer he has to have and 7 putts between 13 and 20 feet long.

John


Do you have Cam Smith's distances by comparison?


I liked this stat
C Smith = 27 putts
Rory = 36 putts


Since statistics were first officially tracked at the Majors, McIlroy is the only player to hold the 54-hole lead or co-lead, hit every green in the final round, and not win the tournament.

Sure, I can do that.

1 - 22 feet
2 -  8 feet  (birdie)
3 - 18 feet
4 - 45 feet
5 - 88 feet (2 putt for birdie)
6 - 62 feet
7 - 49 feet
8 - 80 feet
9 - 10 feet
10 - 5 feet (birdie)
11- 16 feet (birdie)
12- 11 feet (birdie)
13 - 18 feet (birdie)
14 - 5 feet (after 30 yard pitch, birdie!)
15 - 27 feet
16 - 28 feet
17 - 22 yards, then 10 feet for par
18 - 2 feet

17/18 greens in regulation, 5 putts between 2-10 feet and 4 between 11-20 feet.

It looks to me that Smith and McIlroy were comparable in their ballstriking for the first half of the round, but then Smith really got it going on the back nine and gave himself better opportunities.

[Sean_A]

I wish Lee Trevino was here to tell us what he saw. Yes, I think Rory's basic game plan was a conservative one, and within that there were 2 or 3 missed opportunities. But while he played solid golf he was not getting his approach shots close enough, often enough. Why? What would Lee say? Is it simply that Sandbelt Cam is the better ball striker on such firm, dry turf?

Peter,
Do you really think Rory was playing conservative?  He took driver at almost all the par 4's and drove several. Also avoided bunkers he could have landed in squirted in the process. I think he was very aggressive off the tee. He wasn't as sharp with his approaches as needed. Certainly it was the putter that was the difference.
Cam hit 2 great drives on 17/18 with 2 great putts. The entire day about the only shot I recall Smith not executing well was his approach on 17, but he did a splendid up and down.
Rory played very well tee to green, he just didn't putt well enough.

I don't think Rory played conservatively. I think he played to a plan. He just didn't make a few putts. I think Smith was eight shots gained on Rory during the four rounds.

Ciao

[Lou_Duran]

Most good golfers can drive the ball at an acceptable level.  I know very few good golfers whose putting approximate their long game.  Drive for show, putt for dough has a strong basis.  Cam Smith, mullet and all, is one serious, tenacious golfer with three wins this year on three very different golf courses.


As to TOC, I sill think it suffers from "the emperor wears no clothes" syndrome.  Its extraordinary intangibles, IMO, greatly over-power what's on the ground from an all-around golfing experience.  Seven 20k s.f. double-greens and as many as 8-10 pitch and putt holes do make it a rather one-dimensional putting course even for a great player like Rory. 

[Peter Pallotta]

...
I don't think Rory played conservatively. I think he played to a plan. He just didn't make a few putts. I think Smith was eight shots gained on Rory during the four rounds.

Yes, that's better -- I didn't mean so much conservatively as I meant he had a game plan that he believed would win it for him, if he made his 'fair share' of putts -- but then he *didn't* make his fair share, and Smith had one of the best final rounds in history. All true. But I was struck by Rory's "distance from the hole" stats provided above. He didn't have/ give himself all that many great looks at birdie

[Sean_A]

...
I don't think Rory played conservatively. I think he played to a plan. He just didn't make a few putts. I think Smith was eight shots gained on Rory during the four rounds.

Yes, that's better -- I didn't mean so much conservatively as I meant he had a game plan that he believed would win it for him, if he made his 'fair share' of putts -- but then he *didn't* make his fair share, and Smith had one of the best final rounds in history. All true. But I was struck by Rory's "distance from the hole" stats provided above. He didn't have/ give himself all that many great looks at birdie

Rory made a few critical mistakes that in most cases would slide, but not when a guy behind you bags a 64. Not getting up and down on 9, 12 or 14 in aggregate was average at best given Rory's length. He just didn't get the job done. That's life.

Ciao

[Kevin Pallier]

Smith ...

17/18 greens in regulation, 5 putts between 2-10 feet and 4 between 11-20 feet.

It looks to me that Smith and McIlroy were comparable in their ballstriking for the first half of the round, but then Smith really got it going on the back nine and gave himself better opportunities.

John


Thanks for that - much obliged.


Yes - Rory hit is closer on the F9 but didn't take his chances and Smith really got his game going on the B9 and the putter got really hot. It looks like he hit every shot inside Rory on the B9 save for 17.


For mine Smith's par save on that hole was crucial as was Rory's miss.

[Peter Pallotta]

Sean- i'm mostly just trying to get a sense from those who know better whether/to what extent links golf in general and a hard-and-dry-running St A in particular might have impacted play (including the 'mistakes') and influenced results

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