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mark chalfant

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Llanerch ( Brian Schneider) 2021
« on: April 24, 2022, 05:49:12 PM »
This looks likes an imaginative revision of a vintage Alex Findlay course. Please share your thoughts on some memorable holes, ground features and putting surfaces.


Brian Schneider and Blake Conant excel at thoughtful architecture





Thank you 

mike_malone

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Re: Llanerch ( Brian Schneider) 2021
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2022, 02:25:36 PM »
Mark,


I saw the first half of the work and I liked the above ground hazards on number 9.
AKA Mayday

Chris Mavros

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Re: Llanerch ( Brian Schneider) 2021
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2022, 09:48:33 PM »
Hi Mark, I'm a member at Llanerch, joining primarily because of the recent changes to the course.  The renovation was transformative, expanding greens and fairways, clearing trees as well as re-sizing (and some times altogether eliminating) bunkers.  The configuration of the green side bunkers was pretty repetitive before, with one on either side at the front of the green.  They were also out of scale with the property.  Now, bunkers are smaller yet deeper and to be avoided while mounding injects a healthy amount of randomness to various areas.  It's now very much an interesting ground game course and the greens are much more complex.     


I attach a link to my write up, which includes photos of the holes before and after the work, with descriptions of what was done. 


https://golfadelphia.com/2018/12/23/llanerch-country-club/


By way of example, here is the Twelfth prior to the work.  A par 3, small green that was severely tilted back to front, bunkers left and right. 





And here is the hole now.  Much larger green with various quadrants, the slopes and short grass off the green invite a degree of inventiveness in recovery, the bunker making sure the golfer thinks twice about hitting short and putting from there. 









And here's the approach shot at the Tenth before the work.  Bunkers left and right and behind, oval green, an apron front and center.  It's almost the same green configuration as the Twelfth, asking a fairly similar, straightforward question. 





The same approach currently.  A much larger green with a bevy of interior movement, a lot of different areas to hit to, all with different scenarios, and a lower level, mini fairway off to the left where you almost hope to end up in the bunker instead of a tight lie pitch to the green above. 





It's a fun course with an interesting and varied challenge.  The ball rolls as it pleases, which the golfer must consider at each shot.  The greens are some of my favorite.  Well shaped, all kinds of different movement and vexing enough to reverberate to each shot moving backwards to the tee.  It now relies on the terrain much more, which instills a lot more character and a unique, newfound identity. 






mike_malone

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Re: Llanerch ( Brian Schneider) 2021
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2022, 08:51:30 AM »
Chris did a nice job of describing the changes.
AKA Mayday

Ben Stephens

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Re: Llanerch ( Brian Schneider) 2021
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2022, 09:41:43 AM »
Brian Schneider and Blake Conant have both been quite shrewd here - the old holes the bunkers are eye catching visually which takes away from the other elements the new version he has done it in reverse that the green shapes and the mound/grass banks are more eye catching and the bunkers are more restrained that more will take less notice of them.

Jim Sherma

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Re: Llanerch ( Brian Schneider) 2021
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2022, 09:43:47 AM »
I was fortunate to have played Llanerch with Chris last fall and really liked the course. I did not see the pre-renovation version so have no comparison with what was there prior. The land has enough movement through the routing to guarantee diversity,  challenge and interest. There is a good selection of short and long holes to keep the approach shots from feeling too similar. The shaping of the green complexes definitely feel "modern" in their sharpness (on and off the putting surfaces) but it is not overdone and works well in punishing out of position shots. Whether it was intentional or not, I feel like there is similarity with many of the Findlay greens I've played in that there seems to be a good-miss/bad-miss calculus to them that would be learned as you played the course repeatedly. Saying this, the course definitely does not feel, nor play, like a Findlay course. Llanerch is definitely worthy and is a very good case study in modernizing a classic routing. 



I am biased towards classic in-town courses that act as oases within their communities. While on the course perimeters you get  some feel of the surrounding area, but you never feel hemmed in and/or restricted. Pulling out of the lot back onto West Chester Pike is a neat feeling after spending the previous 6 hours on property and easily forgetting how urban the surrounding area is.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 09:50:46 AM by Jim Sherma »

Dan Boerger

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Re: Llanerch ( Brian Schneider) 2021
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2022, 10:26:41 AM »
A few years ago, when our course was closed, we were able to get access to Llanerch.


I had played there prior to the renovations but was eager to see what had been done. Our group enjoyed it so much that we made a tee time for another round right after we completed our first.


Highly recommended.
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Llanerch ( Brian Schneider) 2021
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2022, 11:28:47 AM »
Llanerch is a great neighbor. It has great membership, leadership, and engaging course.
AKA Mayday

Mike Sweeney

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Re: Llanerch ( Brian Schneider) 2021
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2022, 10:14:15 AM »

https://golfadelphia.com/2018/12/23/llanerch-country-club/


Chris,

That is an amazing review. Hopefully the "Linking Police" don't chase you away.  :D  I played Llanerch a bunch as a kid, but that looks completely different - in a great way. Thanks for the update.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Mark_Fine

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Re: Llanerch ( Brian Schneider) 2021
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2022, 07:24:21 PM »
Only played the course once since it was completed.  Some very creative and innovative changes.  I will say it is very challenging for women/weaker golfers.  I played in a mixed event and the two ladies playing really struggled to finish several of the holes.  Chris said he is a member so maybe he can comment further but I think it was re-designed to be hard.  The better the player the more you will enjoy it as long as you are not hung up on "fairness".   

Chris Mavros

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Re: Llanerch ( Brian Schneider) 2021
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2022, 08:29:26 AM »
Thanks for the nice words, guys.  Am happy to host anyone who would like to check it out. 


Mark, I would say that the recent work shifted the challenge of the course and spread it out a bit more than it was.  Instead of hitting it straight or having to punch out of trees/hit out of bunkers, there are a lot more opportunities for recovery now, a lot more ways to play the holes and plenty of short game options.  The greens have a lot more interior movement and are much more challenging to read than the prior ones, which were smaller and tended to tilt in one general direction.  The bunkers are definitely more challenging; they are deep and take up less surface area but they are true hazards and must be navigated.  Their prior iterations were large and many golfers were indifferent if they ended up in them.  Most of all, there seems to be a lot of rub of the green out there.  Unfortunate lies and stances lying on mounds and against bunker walls that to me are part of the game and really work on a golfer's resolve.   


There are some that would argue the course is a lot easier now. There are some that would even lament how easy the course is now.  I am not among them.  While I find it challenging, more importantly to me I find it a lot more interesting now. 


I don't think it's overly difficult though.  How were these women getting caught up?  The few forced carries are not substantial lengths and there's a lot of room horizontally to miss.  Was it the bunkers?  Was the rough up? 

Mark_Fine

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Re: Llanerch ( Brian Schneider) 2021
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2022, 09:02:52 AM »
Chris,
Thanks for the response.  Your second paragraph summed it up well especially the comment about “there seems to be a lot of rub of the green out there”.  It will be interesting to see how this aspect of the renovation is accepted over time within the club/membership.


The depth of the bunkers and heavy rough provided the biggest challenge for the ladies in our group.  They were decent golfers but didn’t have the skills or the strength to play from many of the spots they got in.  They just picked up.  The bunkers as you said are definitely now true hazards. Clearly the architect and construction crew were given free reign.




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