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Thomas Dai

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James Braid's course design 'principles'
« on: January 21, 2022, 01:08:54 PM »
I've just been re-reading James Braid's splendid book 'Advanced Golf'.
Well worth a read generally. Surprising how much hasn't really changed in 100+ years.
Here are some pages that detail his preferred features and design 'principles'.
atb








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Garland Bayley

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Re: James Braid's course design 'principles'
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2022, 01:36:52 PM »
Seems that his principles shade towards the better (dare I say professional) player.
So Dai, how does your favorite Braid course match up against his principles?
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Thomas Dai

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Re: James Braid's course design 'principles'
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2022, 01:49:53 PM »
That would require a Bayleyesque detailed analysis! :) All his points have a great deal of merit though but for now it’s #10 that jumps out as with modern equipment etc his ideal length would be way over the figures he mentions. Which kinda means the figures he mentions were likely pretty significant for non-elite players back 100+ years ago. Tough game back then.
Atb
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Tony_Muldoon

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Re: James Braid's course design 'principles'
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2022, 04:34:19 PM »
Great find Dai, will give this more though but ...rules are made to be broken.

The two Braid courses I know best.
Deal (may have had a limited brief) has only 3 Par 3's.
West Essex (his 3rd course) Hard to think of a course where the 9's are so different in playing characteristic despite being on the same kind of soil.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 09:10:30 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
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David_Tepper

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Re: James Braid's course design 'principles'
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2022, 04:47:13 PM »
My comments from the thread on Braid & Ross that Jerry Kluger started yesterday:

"My understanding is two characteristics of Braid courses are 1) par-3's pointing in all 4 directions of the compass and 2) a combination of short and long par-4's.

Goslpie & Brora are good examples of that. The par-3's do rotate around the compass and most of the par-4's are either under 350 yards or over 400 yards."
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Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: James Braid's course design 'principles'
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2022, 04:51:56 AM »
Not sure that many have laid out such cracking courses on less than appropriate terrain and with less funds than James Braid.
Give him better terrain and greater funds and he did the business too. Upgrades as well.

Atb
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re: James Braid's course design 'principles'
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2022, 01:04:39 PM »
Braid's courses all are intriguing and require well struck and well thought out shots. I think one of his dictums has changed somewhat. Shorter holes in recently built courses do not necessarily have small greens. Instead greens are divided into little sections so hitting the shot into the wrong section will necessitate good putts.
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David_Tepper

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Re: James Braid's course design 'principles'
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2022, 01:32:45 PM »
There is info on James Braid courses in Scotland here:

https://www.visitscotland.com/see-do/active/golf/james-braid-courses/

And here:

http://www.jamesbraidhighland.golf/

There is also an Association of James Braid Clubs that grants members of one James Braid course/club certain concessions when visiting another club that is a member of the Association. Over 300 clubs are members:

https://www.cbgc.co.uk/the_association_of_james_braid_courses
« Last Edit: January 22, 2022, 02:46:55 PM by David_Tepper »
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David_Tepper

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Re: James Braid's course design 'principles'
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2022, 03:23:31 PM »
And don't forget James Braid and his 400 Golf Courses:

https://www.finegolfbooks.com/pages/books/7141/john-f-moreton-iain-cumming/james-braid-and-his-four-hundred-golf-courses

I was able to buy a copy this September in the Brora pro shop for well below the price quoted in the link above.
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Peter Pallotta

Re: James Braid's course design 'principles'
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2022, 07:20:19 PM »
Thank you, Dai.
What a pleasure.
I've not read a lovelier or more legitimate rationale for large open fronted greens than that they "give the player the encouragement to which he is entitled."
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Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: James Braid's course design 'principles'
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2022, 05:46:17 PM »
James Braid could play a bit too! :)
atb
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ward peyronnin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: James Braid's course design 'principles'
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2022, 11:37:24 AM »
I clicked the Highland trail and my gosh look at Reay GC!
I thought Brora was the far north with its arctic tern as its logo but Reay could hoist Santa Claus up for view. It looks like a very fun track too. Sorry I have missed it.
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"Golf is happiness. It's intoxication w/o the hangover; stimulation w/o the pills. It's price is high yet its rewards are richer. Some say its a boys pastime but it builds men. It cleanses the mind/rejuvenates the body. It is these things and many more for those of us who truly love it." M.Norman

John Mayhugh

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Re: James Braid's course design 'principles'
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2022, 12:12:27 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Dai on January 26, 2022, 05:46:17 PM
James Braid could play a bit too! :)
From an exhibit at Walton Heath. Imagine making a two on every hole of a 36 hole club.
P1050188 by john mayhugh, on Flickr


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David_Tepper

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Re: James Braid's course design 'principles'
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2022, 03:04:52 PM »
Ward -

I know there was a photo tour of Reay here 10+ years ago, but I could not find it via the search function. Here is a photo gallery of the course from the club's website:

https://www.reaygolfclub.co.uk/gallery

Despite my 35 visits to the bonnie Highlands, I have yet to play it. Shame on me!

DT


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Garland Bayley

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Re: James Braid's course design 'principles'
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2022, 09:21:16 PM »
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne
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