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Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« on: January 12, 2022, 07:46:47 AM »
So I couldn't sleep last night and was thinking a bit about the thread regarding how much would you pay for a round. I was thinking about the amount some people pay for high end public courses and thought of a business model for the top 100 US courses.  I know our friends across the pond open up most courses in a limited capacity to outside play.  Most US private courses close on Monday for grounds work or sometimes host a charity outing. Would most members of private clubs be okay allowing Tuesday to be a day of outside play and members could use the club Wednesday thru Sunday? I know some members may not like this model but it would put a lot of cash into clubs that could be used to upgrade many things if needed.  Here is what I figured...
 
200 per golfer (a fair price) a foursome would generate at least $1000 bucks with snacks, drinks and merch
You could probably send 30 to 35 groups out a day  ($35,000 a day)
Do this 40 weeks out of the year which allows time for tournaments, weather, etc ( Annual total 1.4 million)


John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2022, 08:04:05 AM »
Why not sell cheaper no questions asked memberships that allow access only on Tuesdays?

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2022, 08:15:50 AM »
That would work too John.  I know some clubs like Augusta, PV, etc would not need to do this, however I'm sure people who are not members would gladly travel to a club and pay 200 + easily

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2022, 09:27:32 AM »
Why dilute the membership advantage? Now you need to find somewhere to play on Tuesday regardless of how much your dues go down.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2022, 09:37:40 AM »
Target Tuesdays.

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2022, 09:41:49 AM »
1. Ladies would freak the F out at the clubs.
2. Seniors would revolt.
3. Clubs do have access to outside capital to offset revenues and it's called: 1) Monday Golf Outings and 2) weddings


That means that the once private club would, in essence, be moving towards a "semi-private" status. Psatiempo has always done this successfully.


That MAY work at some facilities. But, given the recent surge in golf participation during COVID, I doubt it would fly.


It could also cause scores of members to resign.


The simple math question that would be posed before a vote like that:


- how much do the monthly dues need to increase to prevent such a ridiculous idea from being implemented?


- the answer is only about $25 in the end.


Most private clubs now have member play on Monday PMs, too, as there is demand for it.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2022, 09:44:51 AM »
I like the idea of fractional membership but your math is challenged Rick.


40 weeks means March 1 through Thanksgiving…in the Philly area, almost half that time is extremely questionable weather. Could you get 120 people to sign up to play #67 (or whatever) for $200 on March 22 with no refund option?


More importantly, those clubs don’t really need this model. The second tier clubs that want to compete could implement something like this and find the extra cash to provide an experience closer to the top tier.




Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2022, 09:47:19 AM »
My thought was a lot of members would resign. I belong to a smaller club and this wouldn't really help a lot because its not a destination club.  1.4 million could be a very low estimate. I wondered if this model could work for very sought after places to play?

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2022, 09:49:15 AM »
Jim good point! I'm from the Philly area so this would be hard during the harsh weather seasons.  Perhaps hear in the northeast you could do April to November

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2022, 09:56:08 AM »
NO, HELL NO!
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2022, 10:08:41 AM »
99% of members of private clubs already pay over $200 a round for access to their own course.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2022, 10:10:59 AM »
Is price a moral form of discrimination?

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2022, 10:17:08 AM »
Is price a moral form of discrimination?
Maybe the only one.

Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2022, 10:21:18 AM »
How many members would you guess most top 100 clubs average?

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2022, 10:23:58 AM »
99% of members of private clubs already pay over $200 a round for access to their own course.


More than that if it's a club in Midwest and NE and no golf from Nov 15 to April 1.


Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2022, 10:25:44 AM »
How many members would you guess most top 100 clubs average?


Really depends.


Places like Chicago GC have under 200.
Places like Baltusrol, Medinah, Olympic have 700+.


Average may be around 250.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2022, 10:30:40 AM »
I’ve been a member of several top 100 clubs. My experience would say that each club had approximately three too many members. Even those guys beat the hell out of dealing with raters, unaccompanied players and random scallywags.

Bill Seitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2022, 10:33:30 AM »
I don't know how prevalent this is becoming outside of Chicago, but here there is NewClub, which is somewhat vetted* membership society that runs some events and similar programs.  They have tee times at some local private courses for a guest fee that you can book through the society (though maintain some standing times at public courses as well).  You do everything through the app is my understanding.  Point being, at least in this area (and I believe in Atlanta as well), there are private courses that are making times available to a segment of non-members I would imagine as a way to increase revenue, and possibly showcase the club to prospective members.


This is my first year checking it out, so I'm not sure how frequently these times are offered, and clearly I'm not accessing Chicago Golf or Shoreacres via this society (though there are some highly thought of clubs in the program).  Presumably this is another way to generate revenue, but it also gives the clubs an opportunity to limit access to a group of people who a) had to go through some sort of examination process before being accepted into the society, and b) probably have an incentive to avoid getting kicked out of the society.  So they aren't just opening things up to the local riff-raff (theoretically).


*I mean, I filled out a pretty long application and was invited to write a check.  A fair amount of effort was put into to creating the application, but no idea how much effort was put into reviewing it.

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2022, 10:37:29 AM »
Guys,


   A well-oiled, yet slightly tweaked version of this already exists here in the Northeast.


   Early on in Covid 2020, a very well respected Head Pro from a well-known Top 100 NJ club reached out to many of his peers with an idea to open up their courses to outside play on Mondays and Tuesdays. The price would be comparable to unaccompanied  rate and would be offered, first-come, first-serve, to the membership of all the involved clubs. A small fraction of the fee went to shop credit.


  It was originally conceived as a partial substitute for the canceled outing business. Highly-regarded clubs from Westchester, Long Island, New Jersey and the Philly area all signed up and it continues to grow through today. At least 7 Top 100 clubs participated last year.


 Because all the various members of each participating club had access to the others, it's been a resounding success and positively embraced throughout the region. This year promises to have even more prestigious courses, more dates, and more successful.
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2022, 10:44:03 AM »
You just need to be patient and wait for the Boomers like me to die off. The thought of renting my home out on VRBO makes me physically ill.


I do love that the home course of the founder of 1000 greens has banned the practice at his home club.


Btw: It’s immoral to discriminate based on price.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2022, 10:52:47 AM »
Hooray for time shares!  Pricing varies based on day of week and time of day.  Transferable for a fee.  Premium for clubhouse privileges.  Financing available. 

Not unlike booking a large house in the Hamptons in the summer, then selling individual rooms and couches by the week at a profit. 

Is this a great country or what?

Bogey
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 10:57:02 AM by Michael H »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2022, 10:55:41 AM »
On second thought, how about reciprocal Tuesday instead.


Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2022, 11:24:33 AM »
99% of members of private clubs already pay over $200 a round for access to their own course.

Another bit of nonsense from JK.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2022, 11:29:57 AM »
99% of members of private clubs already pay over $200 a round for access to their own course.

Another bit of nonsense from JK.


It costs around $20,000 to play 100 rounds per year at any top 100 private club. 99% of members of private top 100 clubs do not play 100 rounds at that club each year. Not nonsense.

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A 5 Day Schedule for Private Clubs?
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2022, 11:32:40 AM »
99% of members of private clubs already pay over $200 a round for access to their own course.


Bingo!
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett