[Mike Hendren]

Isn't that what makes a hole "great."


Bogey

[Peter Pallotta]

Oh, that's excellent. It deserves a 'Mike' more than a 'Bogey'.

I want to answer 'yes', but I'll go with "a great sequence of shots" instead.

(Your beloved Augusta has several examples of this; for me, lately, I think No. 10 the best.)

[Joe Bausch]

Is it possible this Pete Dye inspired quote applies?


A hole is not great because history is made on it. History is made on the hole because it is great.

[Kalen Braley]

Is it possible this Pete Dye inspired quote applies?

A hole is not great because history is made on it. History is made on the hole because it is great.

Joe,

the 18th at TP has had quite a few historic moments in the last 25 years or so.  Would you assert the hole to be great?

[Tom_Doak]

I would say that a great hole inspires great shots, or that it provides the stage for great shots.


When people play a great hole badly, that doesn't negate its greatness.

[Ira Fishman]

I am surprised that this thread did not generate more interest. I can think of a number of holes just from this year that I think are great but can be navigated successfully with good but not great shots. Perhaps not producing a birdie but a solid par.


Ballyneal 12
Friar’s Head 6
Somerset Hills 11
Ridgewood West 8
Southern Pines 13
Mid Pines 4
Pine Needles 14


Ira

[Thomas Dai]

Um ….. https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,70459.0.html ……?
Atb

[Ira Fishman]

Um ….. https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,70459.0.html ……?
Atb

Different but interesting question.

[Sean_A]

I would say that a great hole inspires great shots, or that it provides the stage for great shots.


When people play a great hole badly, that doesn't negate its greatness.

I go with this. Or else am forced to conclude OK holes call for OK shots and bad holes....

Ciao

[Philippe Binette]

Great hole calls for
- great shots if you have the talent and courage
- well thought out shots to master the hole with consistency
- room to manage your way around carefully...


But more importantly, it requires every player to figure out a balance between the 3 lines above while playing the hole...

[Philippe Binette]

Basically to quote Shakespeare


Whether t'is nobler for the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune (manage around and maybe make par) or to take arms against a sea of troubles (go for it)...

[Mark_Fine]

Michael,
I have no idea how you are defining great but we have all probably hit some really good shots on some crappy holes.  Does great mean tough or demanding?  Are all great holes hard so they require a great shot to be successful?  Any hole even a poor one can require or demand or allow for a great shot.  What about a hole for example that has pine trees planted directly across the front of the entire green except for a 10 foot opening.  It takes a great shot hit through that slot to knock it on the green.  What a great hole 

[Ira Fishman]

Great hole calls for
- great shots if you have the talent and courage
- well thought out shots to master the hole with consistency
- room to manage your way around carefully...


But more importantly, it requires every player to figure out a balance between the 3 lines above while playing the hole...

This is spot on.


Ira

[Mark_Fine]

Ira,
It is obvious that great holes can call for and result in great shots but so can bad holes.  I am not sure what the point is.  Most of us consider the 18th at Pebble a great hole but you can play it with two average 4I’s and a decent wedge and make birdie.

Heroic holes often call for great shots but not all great holes are heroic.

[Ira Fishman]

Mark,


For once I agree with you. You would know that if you read Phillippe and my posts with a modicum of care.


Ira

[Mark_Fine]

Ira,
The problem with written text is it can be interpreted many different ways.  I couldn't tell for sure if Philippe was agreeing with Michael or not. Sorry 

[Ira Fishman]

Phillippe offered a sophisticated, nuanced, and insightful commentary. Not all questions are binary.


Ira

[Bill Gayne]

I agree with the premise that great holes call for a series of great shots. I would extend that to the putting surface and putts.

[Terry Lavin]

Basically to quote Shakespeare


Whether t'is nobler for the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune (manage around and maybe make par) or to take arms against a sea of troubles (go for it)...

Hereby nominated for a “best post of the year” by moi!

[Sven Nilsen]

You can hit an easy 5 iron and a wedge on 16 at Bandon and have a good chance for birdie.  Neither shot is too demanding other than the trouble your eyes and mind create.  I don’t think there are many who would argue it isn’t a great hole.

[Philippe Binette]

Do not mix the notion of great shot and well struck shot...


A 120 yard wedge to 3 feet on a crappy hole or on a great hole is
a 120 yard wedge to 3 feet...


But on a great course, you probably had more thoughts into setting yourself up for a 120 yard wedge and had more visual, physical (stance, lie) elements to consider to produce the 120 yard wedge shot

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