[Kalen Braley]

Gib,

Exactly on point, we're way past half measures on this issue.

This past summer, 50% of Utah was in the worst category for drought D4 - Exceptional Drought, 95% of the state the 2nd worst D3 - Extreme Drought.

https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/About/AbouttheData/DroughtClassification.aspx

Yet local cities and communities have done nothing to address the archaic landscaping codes that mandate anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 of your yard must be covered in some type of vegetation, whether it be grass, bushes, plants, etc. I drive around my neighborhood and 90% of homes have wall to wall grass in their front yard and parking strip.  Furthermore, cities are still levying fines to those who xeriscape their front yards.  Its insanity...

[Peter Pallotta]

Kalen - and think of it: if you who love golf can see the insanity of neighbourhood yards blooming with flowers and grass, just imagine what those who don't golf or who hate golf are thinking when they see acres &
acres of green dotting the bleached-out deserts of California and Nevada, full of 'rich people' loitering about in carts.
They're licking their chops.

[Pete_Pittock]

Kalen - and think of it: if you who love golf and can see the insanity of neighbourhood yards blooming with flowers and grass, just imagine what those who don't golf or who hate golf are thinking when they see acres &
acres of green dotting the bleached-out deserts of California and Nevada, full of 'rich people' loitering about in carts.
They're licking their chops.

Those carts would have to be electric when California's ban on small gasoline engines goes into effect.

[Peter Pallotta]

That, Pete, is very funny -- and as dry as the Nevada desert.

[John Emerson]

Unsustainability was reached the moment golf was was brought to the desert decades ago.

...and yet golf has managed to sustain itself in the desert ever since.


Niall

It is holding on for dear life.  Tic-toc, tic-toc….it’s only a matter of time.  Golf in the desert is not in any way, shape, or form sustainable.  It will be a flash in the pan in golf history.  I’m sure when I’m old as dirt I’ll look back and say “man was that a bad idea!”.

John

I'm sure you take my point that if it was unsustainable decades ago then it would have ceased to exist then, or soon after. The fact that it hasn't and indeed has expanded points to it having been sustainable. Going forward might be another matter which is the question FBD was asking. FWIW I tend to think that when push comes to shove "they" will find a way provided there is enough of a local population to pay the bills. After all, decades ago we didn't have concrete liners (or did we ?) and eco-bunkers. If there is enough money and enough will I tend to think a solution will be found although the solution might not get the Melvin Morrow Award for natural golf course design and maintenance.   

Niall

Niall,
I don’t think you truly understand the reality of what’s going on in the SW.  Water in finite.  There is no amount of money that can buy it if it doesn’t exist.  When push comes to shove, golf courses will be the first to go.  If the drought conditions in the SW persist at the same rate they’re currently on, there is going to be MASS migration within the USA.  Under no circumstance is golf sustainable in the SW.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen - and think of it: if you who love golf can see the insanity of neighbourhood yards blooming with flowers and grass, just imagine what those who don't golf or who hate golf are thinking when they see acres &
acres of green dotting the bleached-out deserts of California and Nevada, full of 'rich people' loitering about in carts.
They're licking their chops.

Its certainly a nuanced topic Peter. 

I'm generally OK with grass that serves a practical or economic purpose at say a city park, ball fields, and even golf courses.  But how often does the average joe actually use their grass at home for something, other than for them or other people to just look at? Or even worse grass on median strips or around facilities in Industrial  Parks? These areas can be just as aesthetically pleasing, and usually less work/inputs to maintain, with other materials and drought resistant plants that require a tiny fraction of water otherwise.

P.S.  I think it was here I read an article that all the golf courses in the US combined only represent about 2% of the maintained grass area nationwide.

[Niall C]

Niall,
I don’t think you truly understand the reality of what’s going on in the SW.  Water in finite.  There is no amount of money that can buy it if it doesn’t exist.  When push comes to shove, golf courses will be the first to go.  If the drought conditions in the SW persist at the same rate they’re currently on, there is going to be MASS migration within the USA.  Under no circumstance is golf sustainable in the SW.

John

I might not have the in depth knowledge of the issue but I fully accept that the lack of water will be an ongoing and increasing problem going forward. That's not under dispute.

What I picked you up on was your statement that golf has never been sustainable in the desert when the facts clearly show that golf has been sustained there over a number of decades as you yourself testify to. However the question posed by FBD was not the sustainability of golf in the desert in the past tense, but rather in the present tense. Have we reached the point where golf is no longer sustainable in these harsh conditions ?

If you are suggesting that golf in its present form, is not sustainable in the desert then I might agree with you. However the game and its playing field has adapted over the centuries and with the advent of technology, not to mention the different places it has been played in. Future courses (in the desert) may not bear much relation to courses in 2021 in the same way that the majority of courses in 2021 bear little relation to courses in the 1880's but I tend to think golf will still exist in the desert in some form or other.

Niall

[John Emerson]

Niall,
I don’t think you truly understand the reality of what’s going on in the SW.  Water in finite.  There is no amount of money that can buy it if it doesn’t exist.  When push comes to shove, golf courses will be the first to go.  If the drought conditions in the SW persist at the same rate they’re currently on, there is going to be MASS migration within the USA.  Under no circumstance is golf sustainable in the SW.

John

I might not have the in depth knowledge of the issue but I fully accept that the lack of water will be an ongoing and increasing problem going forward. That's not under dispute.

What I picked you up on was your statement that golf has never been sustainable in the desert when the facts clearly show that golf has been sustained there over a number of decades as you yourself testify to. However the question posed by FBD was not the sustainability of golf in the desert in the past tense, but rather in the present tense. Have we reached the point where golf is no longer sustainable in these harsh conditions ?

If you are suggesting that golf in its present form, is not sustainable in the desert then I might agree with you. However the game and its playing field has adapted over the centuries and with the advent of technology, not to mention the different places it has been played in. Future courses (in the desert) may not bear much relation to courses in 2021 in the same way that the majority of courses in 2021 bear little relation to courses in the 1880's but I tend to think golf will still exist in the desert in some form or other.

Niall

It may exist, but people will be playing on oil/sand greens and/or synthetic turf.

[Pete_Pittock]

John E,
"It may exist, but people will be playing on oil/sand greens and/or synthetic turf"
The Coober Pedy approach coming to a place near you?.

[Mike Wagner]

Unsustainability was reached the moment golf was was brought to the desert decades ago.

...and yet golf has managed to sustain itself in the desert ever since.


Niall

It is holding on for dear life.  Tic-toc, tic-toc….it’s only a matter of time.  Golf in the desert is not in any way, shape, or form sustainable.  It will be a flash in the pan in golf history.  I’m sure when I’m old as dirt I’ll look back and say “man was that a bad idea!”.

John

I'm sure you take my point that if it was unsustainable decades ago then it would have ceased to exist then, or soon after. The fact that it hasn't and indeed has expanded points to it having been sustainable. Going forward might be another matter which is the question FBD was asking. FWIW I tend to think that when push comes to shove "they" will find a way provided there is enough of a local population to pay the bills. After all, decades ago we didn't have concrete liners (or did we ?) and eco-bunkers. If there is enough money and enough will I tend to think a solution will be found although the solution might not get the Melvin Morrow Award for natural golf course design and maintenance.   

Niall

Niall,
I don’t think you truly understand the reality of what’s going on in the SW.  Water in finite.  There is no amount of money that can buy it if it doesn’t exist.  When push comes to shove, golf courses will be the first to go.  If the drought conditions in the SW persist at the same rate they’re currently on, there is going to be MASS migration within the USA.  Under no circumstance is golf sustainable in the SW.

Water also doesn't go away.  Time will tell, and I'll bet against someone uses definite terms like "under NO circumstances." 

[Forrest Richardson]

There are plenty of things less sustainable than golf in the desert. Firstly, golf BORROWS its water, about 2% of Arizona’s total usage. And it is correct, most courses use recycled water in the populous cities. Streams, as Gib notes, are recirculating systems. They only lose via evaporation. Most are there to aerate stored water volumes.

Going forward the trends will be less water (a mainstay of any arid climate work), turf reduction, turf innovations (new varieties) and water transfers. Example: Seawater extractions pumped to Arizona and California where it gets BORROWED and eventually returns to the ground, air and ocean.

[Pete_Pittock]

Water also doesn't go away (Mike W).
It may not go away but some can permanently be fouled by such actions as fracking.
And the ratio of water to people is continually in decline.

[Joe Hancock]

There are plenty of things less sustainable than golf in the desert. Firstly, golf BORROWS its water, about 2% of Arizona’s total usage. And it is correct, most courses use recycled water in the populous cities. Streams, as Gib notes, are recirculating systems. They only lose via evaporation. Most are there to aerate stored water volumes.

Going forward the trends will be less water (a mainstay of any arid climate work), turf reduction, turf innovations (new varieties) and water transfers. Example: Seawater extractions pumped to Arizona and California where it gets BORROWED and eventually returns to the ground, air and ocean.

Everything I hear is that we’ll use less water by utilizing more heads and increasing our irrigation footprint(wall-to-wall). I’m waiting for superintendents and irrigation consultants to tell their clients that the key to using less water is to reduce the irrigation footprint.

[Don Mahaffey]

Joey,
We say it.  Doesn’t mean anyone listens


Put me down as not a fan of fake creeks anywhere

[Mike Wagner]

Water also doesn't go away (Mike W).
It may not go away but some can permanently be fouled by such actions as fracking.
And the ratio of water to people is continually in decline.

Necessity is the mother of all invention.  I'm guessing desal will become mainstream when it  "gets bad enough."

[Kalen Braley]

Yes water doesn't "go away" but that doesn't mean there is always enough (and more specifically replenished often enough) in dry places to meet demand.  Look no further to the record low levels in the two biggest reservoirs out West (and in the US), Lakes Mead and Powell.

Looking at it from a demand perspective
- In 1910 the western US had about 7 mill people.
- By 1980 it was 43 million and the desert golf boom was in full swing in several desert states/locales.
- In 2020?  The population has nearly doubled since then to 78 million.

Source: https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/dec/popchange-data-text.html

[Steve_ Shaffer]

60 Minutes tackles the 22 year drought in the Southwest:


Southwest states facing tough choices about water as Colorado River diminishes

Seven states and 30 Native American tribes lying in the Colorado River Basin prepare to make hard choices as water levels plummet due to a 22-year drought.




https://www.cbsnews.com/news/colorado-river-water-level-60-minutes-2021-10-24/

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