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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hills versus ponds
« Reply #50 on: August 28, 2021, 02:07:23 AM »
I never mentioned penal architecture.

So what's your beef then? How much space do you need if 50+ yards of fairway and extremely light rough isn't enough?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hills versus ponds
« Reply #51 on: August 28, 2021, 12:39:29 PM »

Some of the best holes I have ever seen were made great by out-of-bounds:

...
the 12th at Pacific Grove


Internal o.b. is often a last-ditch solution when there is a safety problem you can't solve otherwise, and some people will flay you for it just like they do when you have a bunker and a tree together.  You know the type -- the sort of black-and-white thinkers who can't get over their own code of good design, and accept the hole as it is.

It seems to me that the hole is great only for the small percentage of golfers that are able to control their ball relatively well. It also seems to me that probably Tom could have come up with a routing for the property that matches, or exceeds the current routing that does not have internal OB. I may be a black-and-white thinker adhering to my code of good design, but I don't think I need to accept the hole as it is if a better routing would have prevented internal OB.

Of course, I am also the heretic that thought Egan's routing of the front nine made it the better nine than Neville's routing of the back nine. I think the seaside aspect of the back nine gives people heart throbs that artificially raise their rating of the inferior nine.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hills versus ponds
« Reply #52 on: August 28, 2021, 03:29:37 PM »
I never mentioned penal architecture.


Well sort of, but you certainly implied it in reply 41 by basically comparing OB to a noxious weed....


Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hills versus ponds
« Reply #53 on: August 28, 2021, 04:11:51 PM »
I never mentioned penal architecture.


Well sort of, but you certainly implied it in reply 41 by basically comparing OB to a noxious weed....

OB is not penal architecture. It is a lack of property.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hills versus ponds
« Reply #54 on: August 29, 2021, 01:19:07 AM »
I never mentioned penal architecture.


Well sort of, but you certainly implied it in reply 41 by basically comparing OB to a noxious weed....

OB is not penal architecture. It is a lack of property.

WTF is meant by this statement? On the surface, it sounds like a top 10 idiotic proclamation about golf design. The kind of statement someone thinks is pithy, but doesn't have any connection to reality.

Ciao

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

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