[Ira Fishman]

Pinehurst 4. If it were not at Pinehurst and Hanse's name on it, it would be viewed as a very good but not great course. We make at least one trip a year to the area, and I would not skip MP/PN to play it again.


Ira

Thanks for the brave statement Ira. #4 is the last (#8 is a close second) course I recommend to visiting friends.

Peter,


In the past 10 or so years that my wife and I have had the good fortune to travel to play, both of us have PH8 as our least favorite and PH4 toward the end of the list. And we certainly do not agree as a rule. Sheryl enjoyed Castle Stuart, Kingsbarns, and Kapalua Plantation much more than I did but did not care as much for Nairn or Old Mac as I. But we really are lucky to play so many great courses that our perspectives are a bit skewed. We do share a few opinions: we have probably never had as much fun as we had playing the Preserve at Bandon, Golspie and Brora are brilliant, and that there is no better place for a cocktail than overlooking the 18th at Mid Pines.


Ira

[Dan_Callahan]

I realize it is heresy to say this on here, but I thought Harbour Town was very average.

[Pete Lavallee]

The course that didn’t trip my trigger was Black Mesa. It had nothing to do with the rough around the edges conditioning either. Perhaps it was because we had just played Taconic, French Lick, Wild Horse and Ballyneal on the trip. I believe we played it on a Monday and the pins hadn’t been changed from the weekend tournament, which was probably set up with the most difficult possible hole locations. I’ve never had so many putts where “you just can’t get there from here”! I have 32 cousins, east coast catholic, and my favorite one lives in Santa Fe. When I asked her husband if he wanted to join us he said he didn’t want to miss his scheduled root canal!

[Jon Sweet]

I realize it is heresy to say this on here, but I thought Harbour Town was very average.

Good buddy of mine just played it, said “meh” as well. Doesn’t jump off the screen to me when I see it on TV either.

[William_G]

I realize it is heresy to say this on here, but I thought Harbour Town was very average.

Good buddy of mine just played it, said “meh” as well. Doesn’t jump off the screen to me when I see it on TV either.

+1
been propped up by TD and others over the years
residential gig

[Bill Gayne]

I realize it is heresy to say this on here, but I thought Harbour Town was very average.

Good buddy of mine just played it, said “meh” as well. Doesn’t jump off the screen to me when I see it on TV either.

+1
been propped up by TD and others over the years
residential gig

I thought the green complexes were fantastic at HT and the best in the area. Expensive and not a great value but expected being an annual tour stop in a high demand resort area.

[Carl Rogers]

Comment on the comments .....
- Will play P#4 to determine if I am a bit underwhelmed too
-  Need too play all 3 again at Streamsong
- I think Dormie is excellent, except a tough walk


I think that often the expectations of a course or GCA máy cloud or pre-ordain a judgement.

[Tim Martin]

- I think Dormie is excellent, except a tough walk

Carl-I’m a fan of Dormie also and want to get back to see the new walking paths they installed to enhance the trek.

[archie_struthers]

 


Guess I've been underwhelmed by the courses in Ocean City Md in general...we always had fun down there but not much stands out

[Brett Meyer]

Timely given that its sister is getting all the (deserved) attention this week, I don't get thinking that Sunningdale New is one of the best courses in the world. It's an excellent course, certainly one of the best half dozen or so around London. But it's showing up on world top 100 lists pretty consistently now and I don't get that.


There are a few outstanding holes in the first 6, but then several awkward blind driving holes to narrow fairways to finish the front nine. I don't think I've ever seen anyone mount much of a defense of the back nine. Some good holes (10, 12, 15) but nothing world class. And it seems that most agree that the closing three, especially the last, are pretty weak.


Moreover, after the Addington, I thought that it was the London course with the worst tree overgrowth. And now that they're removing them from the Addington, it might be the worst.


Having said that, it's a very tough test of golf and I'm surprised that they don't host more of the big tournaments on it rather than the easier Old Course.

[JohnVDB]

The course that didn’t trip my trigger was Black Mesa.

Pete,
I remember going there with a group of GCAers in the early 2000s.  Some loved it but a few of us were underwhelmed relative to some of the other courses we played on the trip.

[Tom_Doak]

I realize it is heresy to say this on here, but I thought Harbour Town was very average.

Good buddy of mine just played it, said “meh” as well. Doesn’t jump off the screen to me when I see it on TV either.

+1
been propped up by TD and others over the years
residential gig

 Giving me credit for Harbour Town’s ranking is pretty ironic, though, considering it was in the GOLF DIGEST top ten (yes, top ten) when I first played it myself at age ten.  I certainly didn’t have much influence then.

[V. Kmetz]

+1
been propped up by TD and others over the years
residential gig

Giving me credit for Harbour Town’s ranking is pretty ironic, though, considering it was in the GOLF DIGEST top ten (yes, top ten) when I first played it myself at age ten.  I certainly didn’t have much influence then.

I don't know what its CG score is, but it's unfair to saddle TD with any particular lobby on HT... it only seems that way because gadflies such as me provoke it semi-annually in search of another debate... it crosses my hypocrisy wires that a flat, cart-pathed, tree-lined, housing-resort course, with a bunch of no-go artifices, -- usually disdained when such appears at other places -- receives admiration from the same aficionados.


For the record, I like it from afar, and if it was in the budget, I'd seek to play it.

[Bruce Katona]

Frankly, there is only 1 course I even walked off of as it was just no fun with its Christmas tree lined fairways and just back and forth routing - a private course in Somerset County, NJ - Green Brook. The dining experience was very good, the course not so much.


Hopefully the course has been improved since my last visit.   

[JohnVDB]

Frankly, there is only 1 course I even walked off of as it was just no fun with its Christmas tree lined fairways and just back and forth routing - a private course in Somerset County, NJ - Green Brook. The dining experience was very good, the course not so much.


Hopefully the course has been improved since my last visit.

It must have changed its name.  Green Brook Country Club is up near Mountain Lake which isn’t Somerset County.  There is a muni called Green Knoll in Somerset County which definitely doesn’t have any kind of dining experience.

[Niall C]

Blairgowrie.
As (I like to think) a top MacKenzie butt-boy, for years I had been building up the anticipation of playing it as something akin to losing my virginity, passing my driving test, getting drunk for the first time, achieving total consciousness. A big deal.
How disappointed was I. I’m not sure even how much Dr M is left. Sure, I could see the bones of his work, but the whole experience left me bewildered. I was expecting a fun, Mr Toad’s Wild Ride and got the tamest It’s a Small World after all.
Maybe I need to go back.
F.

I was aware of Blairgowrie long before I got into gca and MacKenzie, and it has certainly had a very good rep from back then. I have to say I do quite like the course but wasn't blown away, and as I sit here typing this, I can't recall too many of the holes and I have played it several times albeit not for over a decade.


Niall

[William_G]

I realize it is heresy to say this on here, but I thought Harbour Town was very average.

Good buddy of mine just played it, said “meh” as well. Doesn’t jump off the screen to me when I see it on TV either.

+1
been propped up by TD and others over the years
residential gig

 Giving me credit for Harbour Town’s ranking is pretty ironic, though, considering it was in the GOLF DIGEST top ten (yes, top ten) when I first played it myself at age ten.  I certainly didn’t have much influence then.

LOL
that was blame Tom not credit 

[Niall C]

Saunton East. I'm probably not alone on this as several posters have preferred Saunton West even though east gets all the press and ratings.

Garland


I think I'm with you on this. I enjoyed both courses well enough without thinking they were particularly brilliant and in all honesty I'm not sure if I had a strong preference between the two.


Niall

[Niall C]

I must be an oblivious American because I didn't notice any attitude at Troon.  And I'm sure that I showed up in shorts. 

I agree that there is something missing with the course though.  I just chalked it up to only playing it once... but many of the other courses that I only played once were thrilling in comparison and much more memorable.  So I guess this would be the Scottish version of a course that I might not get.

Peter


I can understand where you and Gib are coming from as it's charms aren't hugely obvious on one go round. It's one of those courses I think where the more you play it the more you appreciate the run of the ball and the subtleties. In terms of the rep for being unfriendly, there was certainly some truth in that once upon a time but they have worked hard to address that.


Niall

[corey miller]

Ira calls PH #4 a "very good course" but not "great"?  Has anyone other than a Pinehurst marketer ever claimed the course great? 


I may have played the original as well as the Fazio remodel and to think a very good course could be developed with what appeared to be tons of constraints may be considered an accomplishment.  During construction I saw how much time and effort and money was going into remediation of the Fazio.  Perhaps the $$$ could have been better spent? but if that project yielded a "very good" Gil and his team did well.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Tempted to add Mammoth Dunes to the list, but I "get" it, I just don't "like" it as much as others seem to. I greatly preferred Sand Valley.

Tobacco Road (this will surprise nobody) is on my list. I feel I "get" it too and encourage first-timers to go and see it and form their own opinion, but… meh.

[Ira Fishman]

Ira calls PH #4 a "very good course" but not "great"?  Has anyone other than a Pinehurst marketer ever claimed the course great? 


I may have played the original as well as the Fazio remodel and to think a very good course could be developed with what appeared to be tons of constraints may be considered an accomplishment.  During construction I saw how much time and effort and money was going into remediation of the Fazio.  Perhaps the $$$ could have been better spent? but if that project yielded a "very good" Gil and his team did well.

I forget which magazine rankings have PH4 in Top 100 in US, but someone in addition to PH Marketing deemed it great. Among courses at resorts that I have played, Cascades, Old White, Primland, Broadmoor East, and Bedford Springs are better not to mention the courses at Bandon, Streamsong, and PN/MP.


Ira

[MKrohn]

I must be an oblivious American because I didn't notice any attitude at Troon.  And I'm sure that I showed up in shorts. 

I agree that there is something missing with the course though.  I just chalked it up to only playing it once... but many of the other courses that I only played once were thrilling in comparison and much more memorable.  So I guess this would be the Scottish version of a course that I might not get.

Peter


I can understand where you and Gib are coming from as it's charms aren't hugely obvious on one go round. It's one of those courses I think where the more you play it the more you appreciate the run of the ball and the subtleties. In terms of the rep for being unfriendly, there was certainly some truth in that once upon a time but they have worked hard to address that.


Niall

I think I may have discussed my general apathy for Troon with Niall in another thread about Ayrshire. Our group were so pumped about getting there, Greg Norman's win, the postage stamp and it was the first course out of the gate on our trip.


The general consensus post trip was that we all had favourites ahead of it, Gib, mine was Prestwick.


Given what's happening, it may be my only time I play and has strengthened my thought that a well organised golf trip would have two plays at places like Troon to reinforce the first look or allow for some change of mind.

[Anthony_Nysse]

I realize it is heresy to say this on here, but I thought Harbour Town was very average.

I've thought that for years. Not even the best Pete Dye on the island.

[jeffwarne]

I realize it is heresy to say this on here, but I thought Harbour Town was very average.

I've thought that for years. Not even the best Pete Dye on the island.

yep.

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