[Ira Fishman]

Let me state at the outset that I have enjoyed every round on a true Links course (I don’t count Castle Stuart or Kingsbarns as true). We have played some of the “Big Names” and the “Gems” but it still is a very small sampling. However, it cannot be the case that there are no architecturally poor Links Courses? There must be some not good ones.


Ira

[Ally Mcintosh]

There are quite a few but the poorness is generally trumped by site and soil.


Once you get past excellent soil and usually excellent site, you can break a course very simply in to:


- Routing
- Strategy
- Detail


There are plenty that fail in the third category. There are plenty that would fail in the second category if the soil / firmness didn’t save them by coincidence. The first is harder to judge but there are better routings out there on links sites, just not many that justify being significantly changed because they all serve their purpose.


Green design I’m including across all three categories. There is the whole gambit from outstanding through average to no design and rudimentary. There are also a few cases where courses aren’t working technically (e.g. drainage, grasses etc..) but these are few and far between given the site quality.


But in the end, the bottom line is that the ground game, sea air and links undulations make almost every links a joy to play, regardless of any perceived “failings”.

[Ronald Montesano]

If Highland Links on Cape Cod is a links course, then I would call it a fair links course. What more to do with the routing? Who knows. What more to do with the presentation? A few centerline bunkers. As it is, the course has fairway-side bunkers and green-front bunkers, but that's it.


However, conditioning is everything, and as long as it plays fast and firm, it does give the links experience.


I would like to see the first green moved back, below fairway level, to give it a punchbowl effect. I don't like the sharp dogleg of the second from the tips, and would like to see the upper tee moved to the right, to soften the dogleg.

[Tommy Williamsen]

There some links that rank toward the bottom of the heap and I won't return to them. Off the top of head:  Ashburnham and Bude & North Cornwall. Some estimates put the number of links courses at almost 300. I have played about 90 and there are some courses of questionable merit. The percentage of poor links courses is a good deal lower than parkland courses.[/size]

[Duncan Cheslett]

Given the natural advantages of sandy soils and fine grasses, it would be difficult to have a “poor” links course.


The least distinguished links courses I have played are just that - undistinguished rather than poor.


Leasowe, situated between Hoylake and Wallasey, springs to mind. Another one is Hesketh in Southport, home to seven excellent and quirky links holes but sadly also  eleven very dull ones on land which is questionable in its links pedigree.


Rhyl is never going to get into any ratings lists  but it’s a perfectly sound if rather uninspiring true links course which had just about managed to survive for 120 years.


Then there are the nine hole links courses which have succumbed to the pressure to add another nine. Usually on an adjacent farmer’s field utterly unsuited to golf. Abersoch is the perfect example - nine of the most enjoyable natural links holes you will find anywhere paired with nine awful holes on nearby pasture.

[Ally Mcintosh]

There some links that rank toward the bottom of the heap and I won't return to them. Off the top of head:  Ashburnham and Bude & North Cornwall. Some estimates put the number of links courses at almost 300. I have played about 90 and there are some courses of questionable merit. The percentage of poor links courses is a good deal lower than parkland courses.

I very much enjoyed Bude & N.Cornwall. Some really excellent holes there. I can think of quite a few poorer links than that.

[Garland Bayley]

There some links that rank toward the bottom of the heap and I won't return to them. Off the top of head:  Ashburnham and Bude & North Cornwall. Some estimates put the number of links courses at almost 300. I have played about 90 and there are some courses of questionable merit. The percentage of poor links courses is a good deal lower than parkland courses.

I very much enjoyed Bude & N.Cornwall. Some really excellent holes there. I can think of quite a few poorer links than that.

I agree with Ally. I did a photo tour of Bude & N. Cornwall.

[Thomas Dai]

Difficult to beat sandy soil and naturally rumpled terrain. Would it be fair to say that lessor links are usually a step up from lessor parklands. Especially during the winter. And then we come to heathlands etc.
Atb

[Tommy Williamsen]

There some links that rank toward the bottom of the heap and I won't return to them. Off the top of head:  Ashburnham and Bude & North Cornwall. Some estimates put the number of links courses at almost 300. I have played about 90 and there are some courses of questionable merit. The percentage of poor links courses is a good deal lower than parkland courses.

I very much enjoyed Bude & N.Cornwall. Some really excellent holes there. I can think of quite a few poorer links than that.

I agree with Ally. I did a photo tour of Bude & N. Cornwall.

Interesting. Maybe this proves Ira's point that there are very few poorly designed links courses because the land is so good.

[Richard Fisher]

The worst crime is the one Duncan refers to - spoiling (as at Abersoch) a really good links nine with a fairly dodgy parkland/arable extension. Seahouses is arguably another example of this (see Sean's profile for more). Rhyl is in fairness the opposite problem - what was once one of the premier courses and clubs in Wales (and a regular venue for the Welsh Championship pre-1939) which has lost good linksland to housing and other pressures.


I have genuinely never been to a 'forgettable' links course, but there are parkland courses I played last month I can barely recall. Some links are simply better than others...

[Tom_Doak]

The worst crime is the one Duncan refers to - spoiling (as at Abersoch) a really good links nine with a fairly dodgy parkland/arable extension.

Innerleven did this twice in one go!

[Peter Pallotta]

I've not played links, only faux links. The difference is (playing-wise) the 'unintended consequences' and (architecturally) the 'uncaused causes'.

In faux links, the ball doesn't move independently of where & how it was hit -- not in the air and not on the ground; and there are no lies or stances or angles or hazards or contours on these courses that are inexplicable, or born out of mystery.

So I can well imagine that even a 'poor' links course, with its inherent movement and mystery, would provide more fun and challenge and interest in the playing than would many a 'better' parkland course.

[Thomas Dai]

And I imagine even lessor links can have their merit raised relatively easily and likely inexpensively too if they call in the services of an knowledgeable architect/shaper. A few days here, a few days there. Amazing what can be achieved even in only a few days by someone who knows what they’re doing especially on sandy terrain.
Atb

[Brad Tufts]

The worst crime is the one Duncan refers to - spoiling (as at Abersoch) a really good links nine with a fairly dodgy parkland/arable extension.

Innerleven did this twice in one go!

I wonder where the original Innerleven 18 would sit in the links rankings.


The seaside nines are both very good, if not super-memorable, but the two clubs have a neat history being located on opposite ends.  I view it sort of like a Nairn...just solid golf without any super well-known holes on which to base an IG marketing campaign.


I remember the added 9 at Leven being a bit better than the added 9 at Lundin, but it's been 22 years since I played Leven, and 10 since playing Lundin.  Leven has a more urban feel with the town hard by the land-side border, where Lundin has the hillside and some trees along the upper margins.

[Sean_A]

The worst crime is the one Duncan refers to - spoiling (as at Abersoch) a really good links nine with a fairly dodgy parkland/arable extension.

Innerleven did this twice in one go!

I wonder where the original Innerleven 18 would sit in the links rankings.


The seaside nines are both very good, if not super-memorable, but the two clubs have a neat history being located on opposite ends.  I view it sort of like a Nairn...just solid golf without any super well-known holes on which to base an IG marketing campaign.


I remember the added 9 at Leven being a bit better than the added 9 at Lundin, but it's been 22 years since I played Leven, and 10 since playing Lundin.  Leven has a more urban feel with the town hard by the land-side border, where Lundin has the hillside and some trees along the upper margins.

Ohhh, I disagree. I think the original 18 could quite possibly be top 10 Scotland.

Ciao

[Marty Bonnar]

The worst crime is the one Duncan refers to - spoiling (as at Abersoch) a really good links nine with a fairly dodgy parkland/arable extension.

Innerleven did this twice in one go!

I wonder where the original Innerleven 18 would sit in the links rankings.


The seaside nines are both very good, if not super-memorable, but the two clubs have a neat history being located on opposite ends.  I view it sort of like a Nairn...just solid golf without any super well-known holes on which to base an IG marketing campaign.


I remember the added 9 at Leven being a bit better than the added 9 at Lundin, but it's been 22 years since I played Leven, and 10 since playing Lundin.  Leven has a more urban feel with the town hard by the land-side border, where Lundin has the hillside and some trees along the upper margins.

Ohhh, I disagree. I think the original 18 could quite possibly be top 10 Scotland.

Ciao

100%!
If you ever get an invite to play in the MacDonald Trophy (no relation), drop everything. It’s now a member/guest played over the original course. It’s truly outstanding.
F.
PS The true ‘original’ Innerleven course was at Dubbieside where the power station now sits.
Edit: Used to sit. I forgot they demolished it!
PPS It’s on the 28th of July this year. While I’m not a member at Leven now, I still have a few mates who are, so if anyone wants to play in it, let me know.

[Scott Warren]

Ira -- you should go see The European Club sometime. 




Sean A et al -- Leven's new inland holes are at least still links. I enjoyed them a lot more than the five-hole parkland soujurn at Lundin. I agree the original course would be an absolute barnstormer. Best played from Leven to Lundin and back?

[Marty Bonnar]

Ira -- you should go see The European Club sometime. 




Sean A et al -- Leven's new inland holes are at least still links. I enjoyed them a lot more than the five-hole parkland soujurn at Lundin. I agree the original course would be an absolute barnstormer. Best played from Leven to Lundin and back?

I would say so, mate. Just to get that closing hole at Leven!
Cheers,
M.

[Ira Fishman]

Ira -- you should go see The European Club sometime. 

Scott,


I believe Ally and some others are high on the European Club. It does seem to be a bit of a polarizing design. I have not played there.
What did you not like about it?


Ira

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ira,


I think The European should be celebrated for providing something unlike any other links; a modern take.


It’s through fantastic dune land and routes beautifully to a crescendo in the middle of the back nine. There are excellent holes and Pat has injected a bit of humour in to the design. There is a decent dollop of strategy / thinking to be done as well.


I have come to look past the parts of the course that don’t suit my preferences (soil,  natural fairway undulations, green detail) and realise it’s a big world and that there is no other course like The European. Therefore I am a fan.

[Sean_A]

Ira,

I think The European should be celebrated for providing something unlike any other links; a modern take.

It’s through fantastic dune land and routes beautifully to a crescendo in the middle of the back nine. There are excellent holes and Pat has injected a bit of humour in to the design. There is a decent dollop of strategy / thinking to be done as well.

I have come to look past the parts of the course that don’t suit my preferences (soil,  natural fairway undulations, green detail) and realise it’s a big world and that there is no other course like The European. Therefore I am a fan.

I have the same PoV as you, but it doesn't make me a fan. Sure build it, but after one play, I have no interest.

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

There are quite a few but the poorness is generally trumped by site and soil.


Once you get past excellent soil and usually excellent site, you can break a course very simply in to:


- Routing
- Strategy
- Detail


There are plenty that fail in the third category. There are plenty that would fail in the second category if the soil / firmness didn’t save them by coincidence. The first is harder to judge but there are better routings out there on links sites, just not many that justify being significantly changed because they all serve their purpose.


Green design I’m including across all three categories. There is the whole gambit from outstanding through average to no design and rudimentary. There are also a few cases where courses aren’t working technically (e.g. drainage, grasses etc..) but these are few and far between given the site quality.


But in the end, the bottom line is that the ground game, sea air and links undulations make almost every links a joy to play, regardless of any perceived “failings”.

There are very few links in the UK and Ireland where the "detail" [shaping] is really excellent.  That's really the only reason some of the new links in other countries can be in the conversation in the rankings.

[Scott Warren]

I have come to look past the parts of the course that don’t suit my preferences (soil,  natural fairway undulations, green detail) and realise it’s a big world and that there is no other course like The European. Therefore I am a fan.

Evaluating a golf course and looking past the land contouring and green details is like evaluating Abe Lincoln’s night at the theatre and looking past his encounter with John Wilkes Booth.


I agree the land on which TEC was imposed is very, very good.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Not at all, Scott. I sounded unduly harsh above because what I was trying to say was that those aspects of The European are to many people’s tastes:


- Not every course needs wildly undulating fairways or greens
- Not everybody puts the same onus on things that many on here hold dear.


The European is a great golf course and no-one should write it off on the words of a few people from this website. Everyone needs to try it for themselves to see if its idiosyncrasies work for them.


There are many in Ireland who prefer The European to RCD, Ballybunion or Lahinch. That doesn’t make them wrong.

[Sean_A]

The European is a great golf course and no-one should write it off on the words of a few people from this website. Everyone needs to try it for themselves to see if its idiosyncrasies work for them.

There are many in Ireland who prefer The European to RCD, Ballybunion or Lahinch. That doesn’t make them wrong.

It doesn't make TEC great either.

Ciao

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