[Nick Church]

I had the fortunate opportunity to play The Golf Club of Tennessee yesterday.  Our host and the forecaddie both pointed to mass clearing work underway for the 2nd course on higher ground.  They mentioned Gil Hanse is the designer which is supported by the only articles I could find (dating to Fall 2020). 


I wonder might anyone here have any more information or site layout plans, perhaps?

[Tom_Doak]

I spent about two hours looking at the topo map and passed.  It’s very steep so it will have to be cart golf.  It will cost a fortune to make it any good.

[Joel_Stewart]

Does Gil ever say no? 


I wonder what the time frame will be since he has so many projects already scheduled.   He signed a deal last week for a new private course in the California desert with construction starting next year.

[Mike Hendren]

I would like to go on the record as Tom's uncompensated consultant even though that's not true.


Speaking of topo, I've always thought holes 3 through 5 there fight the land a little too much.  I will say the opener is highly underrated as it features the best green on the site and also is ideally approached from the extreme outside of the dogleg.  I also like the downhill approach to the 13th green as it invites trundling the ball down the fairway onto the green for us low ball hitters.  Never cared much for the finisher and there are couple of pedestrian two shotters in my book.  With Belle Meade having been Jonesed, I'd have to give Hillwood the nod in Nashvegas - solid disco-free golf. 


Should note that my two cents are worth two cents. 

Mike

[Nick Church]

Thanks all. 


The caddie's descriptions of rises and falls supports Mr. Doak's note.  I never heard mention of walking, so it certainly wasn't a lead talking point. 


Incidentally, our caddie is from Oxford, England.  He played college golf in the area.  He was great and really enhanced the experience.


I enjoyed the course and the challenge it presented.

[Tom_Doak]

Does Gil ever say no? 

I wonder what the time frame will be since he has so many projects already scheduled.

That’s really his business, not ours.  He’s made the decision to be big like Tom Fazio, and when you have a lot of staff you have to keep signing up jobs to feed the machine.


It’s not a problem if he continues to do great work.  And would anybody call him out if he didn’t?

[Jonathan Cummings]

Know nothing of the new course but the original course commands a beautiful piece of property and I liked it a lot.....as long as you ignore that damn climb up to the third tee!

[Drew Maliniak]

If TGC wants a U.S. Am or the like (or host a Northeast Am competitor), a little odd that they would build a cart-focused course. I bet they are focused on the U.S. Four-Ball.

More interesting: Chattanooga golf dominates Nashville golf, which makes zero sense in a vacuum. Chattanooga has Sewanee, Sweetens, The Honors, Chattanooga CC, Black Creek and Lookout Mountain.

[/size]Mount Airy looks unkept now but also used to be wildly fun (think Running Deer style outside of Philly built into a mountain). That being said, unwalkable.

[/size]Nashville really has Belle Meade and the Golf Club. I will say that Nashville National (formerly Through the Green Highland Rim, which sounds like a Sci Fi novel) is amazing fun. Big features. Raynor style.
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[John_Cullum]

It’s not a problem if he continues to do great work.  And would anybody call him out if he didn’t?

If only we knew of a critic of golf course architecture who would play devil's advocate on highly regraded layouts.

[Daryl David]

He signed a deal last week for a new private course in the California desert with construction starting next year.

Coachella Valley??? 

[Tom_Doak]

If only we knew of a critic of golf course architecture who would play devil's advocate on highly regraded layouts.

That’s obviously a very sensitive topic for me, since Gil once worked for me, and since I’ve been accused of something nefarious for said what I thought about another of me peers’ courses (The Castle Course).


It would be easier for me to participate if anyone else had the guts to say they didn’t like one of his courses, but you can’t find much real criticism in this business, to this day.  The only thing that seems to be allowed is personal attacks!  I’ve had my share of those!

[Ira Fishman]

If only we knew of a critic of golf course architecture who would play devil's advocate on highly regraded layouts.

That’s obviously a very sensitive topic for me, since Gil once worked for me, and since I’ve been accused of something nefarious for said what I thought about another of me peers’ courses (The Castle Course).


It would be easier for me to participate if anyone else had the guts to say they didn’t like one of his courses, but you can’t find much real criticism in this business, to this day.  The only thing that seems to be allowed is personal attacks!  I’ve had my share of those!

I have posted elsewhere several times that Castle Stuart felt artificial and seemed designed to produce better scores than what it looked like it should. I understand that may have been his design brief, but that does not mean it should be considered a great course. We played RD, Brora, Golspie, Nairn, Woking, Swinley Forest, and St. George’s Hill on the same trip that we played CS. I would go back to all but Nairn and CS in a heartbeat and would pick Nairn over CS because there is nothing artificial about it. I also have posted that PH4 underwhelmed by quite a bit, particularly 13-18. The Par 3s seemed pretty repetitive, and generally the routing did not have much flow. And we played it before PH2 so my view is not biased by comparison to PH2. The only other Hanse course we have played is SS Black. I liked it quite a bit for its bigness and boldness even if it is a bit over the top in terms of the greens.


Ira

[Drew Maliniak]

Think fair to say Mr. Hanse has done a pretty bang-up job on his restorations.


On his original work, I want to see Mossy Oak and Ohoopee Match. Mossy Oak looks like the Rio course but in MS.


French Creek had some really fun holes--plus a few that were not fun at all in tournament golf because you had to hit perfect shots to avoid an 8 (i.e., total target golf).


Did like the article on Sewanee:


https://www.lyingfour.com/conversations-blog/2021/5/22/sewanee

[Matt_Cohn]

If TGC wants a U.S. Am or the like (or host a Northeast Am competitor), a little odd that they would build a cart-focused course. I bet they are focused on the U.S. Four-Ball.

Which is also walking, of course. I don't know the club, but I doubt they would spend millions on a course with the aim of hosting a US Four Ball?

[Tim Gavrich]

French Creek had some really fun holes--plus a few that were not fun at all in tournament golf because you had to hit perfect shots to avoid an 8 (i.e., total target golf).

This was takeaway from the junior tournament I played in at French Creek. I liked the course overall but I remember coming away thinking the 15th was too severe. I'd very much like to see it again to see if that take holds up, or if the tournament organizers maybe contributed to that feeling (which was common throughout the field) via a couple overzealous hole location selections. I remember being warned about the severity of the 14th hole going into that tournament, but don't recall having an issue with the hole in the tournament. 15 was the main contention point.

[Lou_Duran]

Ira F,


I think that Mr. Doak was speaking of the Castle course at St. Andrews by DMK.


Castle Stuart was a very pleasant surprise during my trips in 2019.  Played it once in glorious weather and once with storms all around finally hitting the course in the back nine  I liked it very much and plan to play it at both ends of my next trip into Inverness and Dornoch.


Drew,


But for the large bunkers filled with a low-grade river sand from nearby and tall, thick natives a bit too close to the playing corridors, I thought that Mossy Oaks was very good.  It is a good counterpoint to its traditional sister across the street, and has an excellent mix of holes.  I played it twice after a heavy rain and can only imagine how much fun it would be if F & F.


John Cullum,


What do you mean?  Fazio gets blasted here quite often.

[JohnVDB]

Given the course has had a US Women’s Amateur and had one of the men’s NCAA regionals this year, I think goal would be a US Am.


Given a second course would on,y be played during stroke play, a course that was not a great walking course might still be acceptable.  Time will tell.

[Mike Hendren]

It's in my back yard and I've heard nothing.  Anyone have an update?


Bogey

[Adam_Messix]

Drew


Mossy Oak is significantly hillier than Rio Olympic, a course is very flat.  I enjoyed both courses and are worth seeing if you're in the area.  The flight to Rio is a long one.

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