News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great holes no-one talks about
« on: June 24, 2021, 04:55:42 AM »
Name me a great hole that you know is great because you’ve played it enough times to learn the little subtleties and intricacies… but Joe Magazine Rater doesn’t know because he swept in once on a red carpet, never returned and no-one else has ever told him it’s great so he can’t repeat it when asked.


Tell me why it’s great.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2021, 07:25:15 AM »
The best hole on the property at The Northumberland is the Winter 5th.  We have 22 holes at NGC and swap the 4 "winter" holes in during the, well, winter months.  This hole is the second of these.  It's a short uphill par 4, driveable for good players but a drive and a flick for me and most.


The small green is quite steeply angled towards the golfer, and anything long leaves a very tricky 2 putt from almost any distance.  But what makes the hole is the one bunker on it.  There is a bunker front right of the green, and the fairway is wider right than left (the left side of the hole is bounded by the racecourse which is a feature of the course and which is in play but thick rough).  As well as banking back to front, the right front half of the green banks right to left because of that bunker (which has a raised lip).


A tee shot down the left leaves a straightforward pitch, where judging distance is the only real issue.  Anything in the right half of the fairway (or even near the green but on the right) leaves a pitch/chip which is almost impossible to get close to a pin anywhere other than back left.  A really good long drive can leave an eagle opportunity, the same distance hit but just 15/20 yards right can make par a real struggle.  Incredibly simple but really good.  Sadly, most members think it's unfair that a 300 yard drive 20 yards right of the ideal line isn't rewarded with a birdie opportunity and think little of the hole. 
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2021, 07:50:37 AM »
Par fives are tough to make interesting. I suggest three great ones by Flynn. 12 at Philly Country, 6 at Lehigh, and 15 at Huntingdon Valley. These have great tee shots with two angled and one uphill. But it’s the bunkers in the layup area that impress me. They fit perfectly into the land and force decisions ; over, to the side, or short. Then the greens run along the natural slope of the land front to back and one side to the other.


Some will suggest that a couple aren’t even the best on that course citing 7 HVCC and 3 PCC as better. Flynn’s fives are awesome but are they better than his long par threes?
AKA Mayday

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2021, 08:07:52 AM »
I’m going to pick one hole, actually two, from Cruden Bay. Neither hole though is on the much loved herein Championship course coz they’ve both on CB’s other course, the splendid 9-hole St Olaf course.
Choice #1 - the 415 yd 8th. Think the Foxy-14th at Royal Dornoch but with a smaller green.
Choice #2 - the 380 yd 6th. Tee shot over a blind saddle followed by a dogleg left to an evil, small, raised green.
Oh, and the wee 120 yd 7th that sits between them is an absolute cracker too.
Atb

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2021, 09:12:10 AM »
Better as a par 4 but..
the UK s hardest par 3
Anstruther-nice place for a bite to eat as well



SOMEONE's talking about it, just have no idea what he's saying-link small but works-scroll to 1:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moKRmuIWxiM
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2021, 09:51:50 AM »
I occasionally add to a very sporadic, deeply unpopular running series of threads that highlight totally unknown holes that I find really cool: Great Holes in Unexpected Places.


Among more well-known courses, I almost never hear anyone talk about holes 8 and 13 at The Prairie Club Dunes course, but I think both are exceptionally outstanding par 4s. 8 is such a cool Alps-ish hole where a shorter hitter or conservative player has a solid 115 yard-wide fairway to aim for, but where an accurately played aggressive drive up the left reveals a much better view of the approach. 13 is almost a choose-your-own-adventure hole, with centerline bunkers effectively creating three or four different "fairways," some riskier, some safer, and all relevant to different players on different days with different winds and pin positions.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2021, 10:02:19 AM »
Thanks for the replies so far - some good responses.


Whilst I’m also looking for great holes on unknown courses, I’m most interested in unheralded holes on well known courses, ones with elements that get overlooked until you know the hole well.

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2021, 11:09:40 AM »
It probably does not reach “great”, but after multiple plays, Number 9 at Pine Needles is a hole that I have come to appreciate. Best angle to the green is from the left because a deep hollow guards the green tight, but fairway bends just enough to risk a pull left off the tee. There is a bunker left of the green which leaves a tough shot to not run into the swale but your eye and the swale draw you left. Steep drop off behind the green. So even though not long, the hole requires focus and well struck shots.


Across the road, I did not particularly care for number 7 at Mid Pines, but several plays led to an appreciation for how the green site makes hitting it, pitching to it, and putting a set of subtle challenges.


Ira

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2021, 11:18:47 AM »
#1 at Owatonna CC in Owatonna Minnesota -- I don't know if a rater has ever played it.


Short opening Par 4 with hazard all along the left but not encroaching too much and a ridge that bisects the fairway from left to right in the ideal landing zone. If you bail right the ridge obscures your view of the green and you will probably be hitting out of the rough. Short and left of the ridge gives you a longer shot in but a flat lie to an elevated well- bunkered green that slopes hard Right to Left.  Longer hitters will have uphill/downhill/sidehill lies depending on the bounce on the ridge. Anything above (to the right of the hole) is a tough two put. Long is a difficult pitch and short will roll down 10 yards off the green. Also the tee box is basically the back of the clubhouse five steps from the proshop adding to pressure.


A couple other very good holes on the course but that one is my favorite.







Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2021, 11:19:53 AM »
Hershey CC-West Course #13. Par 5 that winds up out of a creek bed (creek was diverted prior to course being made). Tee shot visually set up for a draw but the right to left tilt of the landing area rapidly brings trouble down the left side into play. Second shot usually needs to be flighted off of a fairly steep hook lie. Cool drop off on the left side of the fairway further up the hole as you climb out of the old creek bed. Large back-to front green with a lot of variation through the dominant slope. If you removed all man-made aspects of the hole it would still be a cool land form to play over. The one knock against the hole is that it really rewards clubhead speed as the second shot is much easier if you can carry the ball 175+ off of the hook lie.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2021, 11:30:18 AM »
IMHO #9 at Golspie is as good as any par-4 in the Highlands. See for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dloNXIKgvII

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2021, 11:35:52 AM »
IMHO #9 at Golspie is as good as any par-4 in the Highlands. See for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dloNXIKgvII


I got asked recently for my list of the best holes in GB&I. I provided 54 holes in three eighteens. This hole was in my 2nd eighteen.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2021, 11:38:51 AM »
Ally -

As the saying goes, "great minds think alike." ;)

DT

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2021, 12:02:24 PM »
#17 at Bath GC in Bath, England. It's a very short par 4 - 300yds - that doglegs right around an old stone wall will OB all along the right side.  OB is 25 yards from the middle of the fairway and 10 yards from the edge of the two tiered green.  There are no bunkers (that I remember) but between the fairway and the green, right where a failed attempt to drive the green would land, are a series of grass bunkers and hollows. A lot of players can probably drive the green, there are a few trees along the wall but they are easily flown, but for many players it would require hanging the ball out over the OB for a long way.  A really cool hole.


If you talk about Bath GC you talk about this hole but not many people talk about Bath GC.


"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Stewart Abramson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2021, 12:21:47 PM »

I got asked recently for my list of the best holes in GB&I. I provided 54 holes in three eighteens...


I'd love to see the list

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2021, 12:36:02 PM »
IMHO #9 at Golspie is as good as any par-4 in the Highlands. See for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dloNXIKgvII


I agree that it is a great hole, but I played it only once so I do not meet the thread’s criterion for mentioning it. Until you did!


Ira

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2021, 12:36:48 PM »

I got asked recently for my list of the best holes in GB&I. I provided 54 holes in three eighteens...


I'd love to see the list


Absolutely.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2021, 01:14:06 PM »

I got asked recently for my list of the best holes in GB&I. I provided 54 holes in three eighteens...


I'd love to see the list


Absolutely.


Might dig it out later but some of the more unusual ones in the first 18 (though they will be well known to all on here) included Elie 4th, Donegal 8th, Ganton 3rd, St Enodoc 4th, Nairn Dunbar 18th and Royal Tarlair 13th…


Further down the list, some of the other less talked about holes included Westport 15th, Carlow 17th, Prestwick St Nicholas 16th, Irvine 4th, Strandhill 5th, Rosapenna OTM 12th, Trevose 4th, Royal Ashdown Forest 6th, Leven 18th, Moray 18th

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2021, 01:31:06 PM »
I'm not sure I hear about the par three fifth hole at RND. It is under 140 but into the wind and a little uphill I have hit as much as a five iron. It is guarded by deep bunkers with a green full of slopes and runoffs. Get above the hole and when the greens are quick getting the speed correct on your first putt is difficult. It is one of the great unheralded threes anywhere.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jeff Segol

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2021, 02:30:12 PM »
At the risk of being rediculed, I will nominate #14 at Boundary Oak, the Robert Muir Graves design in Walnut Creek, CA. This is something I find hard to find, a truly interesting three-shot par 5. The green is narrow, but the third shot is up the length of it, so it's fair, and is protected by a bunker to the right. It's a two-tiered green, and steep, so being below the hole is a must. The difficulty of the green dictates the rest of the hole, as the objective is to get close enough to hit the third shot with some spin or trajectory to try and control it. The fairway is a dogleg right that slightly tilts left, so the ideal would be a slight fade to the center of the fairway. Too much and you're blocked out by trees on the right. A pull left is dead, into a thick stand of the trees and the course boundary fence. The second shot must carry a bunker at the right corner of the dogleg. Making the approach more difficult is that it's almost always an uphill lie.


I really like this course, and I know it's difficult enough that the Spanos Tour, one of the NoCal mini-tours, used to have an event here. The greens are very challenging, because the course is build on the side of a hill, and I think the topography was used well. I enjoy playing there.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2021, 03:06:02 PM by Jeff Segol »

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2021, 02:59:11 PM »
Jeff S. -

I played a fair amount of golf at Boundary Oaks in the early 1980's. In the 20 years or so I have been on this chatboard, your post could be the first time the course has ever been mentioned.

Yes, #14 is an interesting hole. The "reverse camber," with the fairway tilting left but turning right, makes the first & second shots challenging.

DT

Jeff Segol

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2021, 03:07:19 PM »
The drive is sufficiently challenging that I usually play a 3W off the tee, even though the extra difference would be useful, because I know that missing the fairway is almost always a bogey or worse.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2021, 03:45:46 PM »
I'm not sure I hear about the par three fifth hole at RND. It is under 140 but into the wind and a little uphill I have hit as much as a five iron. It is guarded by deep bunkers with a green full of slopes and runoffs. Get above the hole and when the greens are quick getting the speed correct on your first putt is difficult. It is one of the great unheralded threes anywhere.
Nice one Tommy.
There are quite a number of unheralded holes at RND. I suggest the early and late holes are much better than they seem. Maybe they get less attention as they don’t have the undulations and views some of the other do? And then there are some folks stances on common land courses and conditioning to consider.
Atb

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2021, 03:53:53 PM »
David,

I'm at least 90% confident, i've brought up Boundary Oaks at least once in the 15+ years I've been on GCA.com, I just can't remember when.  ;)

I played it a handful of times when I lived in the Bay Area, but I wasn't a fan of that hole.  Between the length, OB Boundary the entire length of the hole, the reverse camber, and harsh penalty for just missing the fairway, I thought it was far too penal for the ordinary joe to be considered great.  But sure if they're playing a US open there, maybe it would be "great" for the pros ala Torrey Pines fashion.

P.S.  My favorite course in that neck of the woods was Delta View.  Some very interesting holes with a few wild greens and a theory floating around that Dr. MacK designed the original 9 holes.  But its also now NLE:'(
« Last Edit: June 24, 2021, 03:55:48 PM by Kalen Braley »

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great holes no-one talks about
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2021, 04:36:10 PM »
I am going to name four straight off the top of my head, because I have played them alot and every time I do so I consider them World Class Golf holes.
All  are at Diamante in Cabo..holes #2..#12..#15..#17


2,12,17 all par threes which for me is rare to find, 3 par threes on the same course at this level.
Varying in distance from 240-160 from the back tees, the variety of ways to play at least two of these is remarkable.
Different wind on all three of the holes and visually spectacular.


#15 is simply one of the best par fives anywhere, for me up there with 315 at Pine Valley, with a greensite that is as specatcular as the par threes play.



Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back